usmcbess
Regular Member
Had a shotgun pointed at me by a state patrolman today in Washington, Missouri for OC'ing.
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Drawn on by Missouri State Patrolman
- Thread starter usmcbess
- Start date
thebigsd
Founder's Club Member
Is that it? Details? Recording? Anything for us to go on?
ManInBlack
Regular Member
. . .
Space saved for comment when/if details are provided and story develops substance.
thebigsd
Founder's Club Member
Just read in the Missouri sub-forum that he will not be posting anymore until he contacts a lawyer. Probably the best move he could make.
Statesman
Regular Member
What a moron. Did he feel threatened by a holstered handgun?
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
+1 for the OP in doing this, but if anybody in Missouri are interested they can request the troopers report. Although me personally after reading too many reports know not to believe what is written by an officer trying to justify his actions.
CrossBow33
Regular Member
Is it just me or does it seem that there's been a lot of these "encounters" in Missouri the last few years?
zekester
Regular Member
Without commenting.....No comment!
F350
Regular Member
Can't wait for details!
I OCed in Missouri for a couple years and never had a problem with any Missouri LEO (I stayed out of the the big shitties like St Louis KC etc) and especially found the MO Highway Patrol to be knowledgeable and professional, even had a breakfast conversation with a couple while OCing.
I OCed in Missouri for a couple years and never had a problem with any Missouri LEO (I stayed out of the the big shitties like St Louis KC etc) and especially found the MO Highway Patrol to be knowledgeable and professional, even had a breakfast conversation with a couple while OCing.
Dreamer
Regular Member
How about EVERYONE on OCDO requesting a copy of the report, or FOIA the radio traffic for this event...
Just think, if every time an LEO harassed a lawful OCer--anywhere in the country--and within a few days they received THOUSANDS of FOIA requests--it might start making these LEAs think twice before letting their officers get away with this sort of thuggery.
Not only would these request cause them all sorts of expenses, but it would let them know that there were THOUSANDS of people all over teh country who were watching them, and concerned with ensuring that LEOs operate within the bounds of the law.
We need to stop acting like we are guaranteed a "win" on this issue, and start using some SERIOUSLY aggressive bureaucratic and administrative tactics--using the "system" against itself. Perhaps the occasional avalanche of paperwork might be a bit of a deterrent to these scoff-law LEAs...
usmcbess
Regular Member
Video
Youtube search "opencarry shotgun incident" for the video. Also visit the missouri forum on OCDO to see me being demonized and caled names by traitors and or bigots.
Youtube search "opencarry shotgun incident" for the video. Also visit the missouri forum on OCDO to see me being demonized and caled names by traitors and or bigots.
This is probably more of a rhetorical question than one in search of a detaied answer, but why did you get into a debate with the cops?
I am one of the greatest for wanting to point out each and every right, law, rule, policy and procedure that someone (does not have to be LE) is violating, breaking, raping and otherwise molesting. But over a lifetime I have learned that situations like yours are not helped, and often hurt, by doing so?
Tactically there is a lot to be said for providing the minimum information necessary (name, rank, serial number) and then being a broken record of asking LE if you are being detained, and if so being a broken record of saying you want to contact your attorney before answering any further questions. That, or when LE asks questions like "What are we expected to do when we get calls about a man with a gun?" tell them you expect them to check out the situation and now that they have seen you are presenting no threat to allow you to go on about your way. Getting into a debate with them, or going off-topic to discuss citizenship, rights, and case law just plays into their agenda and builds up in their minds that you are "argumentative" and "evasive", as well as possibly "resisting" their authority.
Seriously, besides showing how much you know about the law (as opposed to LE?) how does debating with or lecturing the cops improve your situation? Yes, they need to learn what the law says and how to interact with a LAC in a manner that defuses, as opposed to escalates, a situation fraught with tension from before they make contact with you. But on the side of the road?
I'm not raking you over any coals. I'm just trying to point out that getting sucked into their game puts you at a disadvantage. Refuse to play and they need to regroup and figure out a different strategy.
stay safe.
I am one of the greatest for wanting to point out each and every right, law, rule, policy and procedure that someone (does not have to be LE) is violating, breaking, raping and otherwise molesting. But over a lifetime I have learned that situations like yours are not helped, and often hurt, by doing so?
Tactically there is a lot to be said for providing the minimum information necessary (name, rank, serial number) and then being a broken record of asking LE if you are being detained, and if so being a broken record of saying you want to contact your attorney before answering any further questions. That, or when LE asks questions like "What are we expected to do when we get calls about a man with a gun?" tell them you expect them to check out the situation and now that they have seen you are presenting no threat to allow you to go on about your way. Getting into a debate with them, or going off-topic to discuss citizenship, rights, and case law just plays into their agenda and builds up in their minds that you are "argumentative" and "evasive", as well as possibly "resisting" their authority.
Seriously, besides showing how much you know about the law (as opposed to LE?) how does debating with or lecturing the cops improve your situation? Yes, they need to learn what the law says and how to interact with a LAC in a manner that defuses, as opposed to escalates, a situation fraught with tension from before they make contact with you. But on the side of the road?
I'm not raking you over any coals. I'm just trying to point out that getting sucked into their game puts you at a disadvantage. Refuse to play and they need to regroup and figure out a different strategy.
stay safe.
ManInBlack
Regular Member
Why was your father involved?
zekester
Regular Member
I was giving you the benifit of the doubt..
Bess,
You have been raked over the coals on this, on the Missouri Forum, mainly because you were asked not do anything disruptive during the negotiations of SB680.
Although I respect what you do, this was a disappointment on many levels for me.
1st) Because of this action, Washington tried to implement a OC ban, which is within their rights, luckily it failed.
2nd) It is well known that the Rep in your juristiction is dead against OC. He has been waiting for a reason and support to kill SB680, which is why you were asked to curtail your actions until the process was complete. You chose to ingnore this, which of course is your right.
3rd) The press was all over this in Washington, which did not give OC a good light and SB680 is now about to go down in flames.
4th) I initally supported you in this discussion, because I felt that the "organization" should have informed everyone about the sensitivty of the legisilators and not single you out because they thought that you "bait" the LEO.
5th) After seeing the video, it clear it was a bait and you failed miserably. Although the LEO were wrong, and you were well within your rights, your history proceeds you for baiting. You just did it at the least opportune time.
Bess,
You have been raked over the coals on this, on the Missouri Forum, mainly because you were asked not do anything disruptive during the negotiations of SB680.
Although I respect what you do, this was a disappointment on many levels for me.
1st) Because of this action, Washington tried to implement a OC ban, which is within their rights, luckily it failed.
2nd) It is well known that the Rep in your juristiction is dead against OC. He has been waiting for a reason and support to kill SB680, which is why you were asked to curtail your actions until the process was complete. You chose to ingnore this, which of course is your right.
3rd) The press was all over this in Washington, which did not give OC a good light and SB680 is now about to go down in flames.
4th) I initally supported you in this discussion, because I felt that the "organization" should have informed everyone about the sensitivty of the legisilators and not single you out because they thought that you "bait" the LEO.
5th) After seeing the video, it clear it was a bait and you failed miserably. Although the LEO were wrong, and you were well within your rights, your history proceeds you for baiting. You just did it at the least opportune time.
I'm gonna have to withhold judgement on that.
derhammer
Regular Member
Ridiculous. You have every right to get out of your car and walk laps up and down the highway if you please, with any gun you please. THE CONSTITUTION SAYS SO. I do hope you intend on pressing this in the courts as far as you can. Insanity like this must be crushed. Thank you for fighting in your own way for our right to bear arms, sir!
-derhammer
-derhammer
Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
So funny you would post this. So, because OC is up for discussion in the Legislature, this individual, and all individuals ought to stop OC'ing?
If walking down the street OC'ing in a State where it's legal is 'baiting' then there are many of us on here that so-called Bait LEO's every day we walk out the door into society.
No OC'r should be swayed by some anti-firearm political opportunist who is dead set against OC; it's not as if you're going to change their mind anyhow. If I were concerned about particular sensitivities of me walking around OC'ing, then I would cease to OC. If the Legislator has as exhibit A, the individual in the video, walking down the street, minding his own business, as some sort of justification for banning OC, well, then OC'rs in that State are sitting pretty good.
Don't put the weight of your personal OC shortcomings on the individual who started this thread. If you want to p*ssy-foot around people who are sensitive to OC'ing, and navigate through political winds, go for it, just don't expect the rest of us to do it.
Welcome to OC.
Last edited:
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Some good points....I wonder how cooperative they'd be with out of state requests though?
Agree with Skid, you talked too much. You ended up giving up more than you needed to. Just be a broken record on 'why am I being detained'. In fact early on, the one LEO said 'you are not being detained' and you missed it and continued to talk. You should have said 'if I am not being detained, am I free to go?' and kept repeating that.
Getting badge numbers and stuff while prob. good for activism purposes, didn't help you. They let you go in the end and I think would have done so much earlier if you'd said the same thing over and over (am/why am I being detained) and then asked for your lawyer. You gave them a lot of openings and they even asked pointless questions (like what kind of gun you had - where you also over-shared).
Good luck and glad you ended it ok.
Getting badge numbers and stuff while prob. good for activism purposes, didn't help you. They let you go in the end and I think would have done so much earlier if you'd said the same thing over and over (am/why am I being detained) and then asked for your lawyer. You gave them a lot of openings and they even asked pointless questions (like what kind of gun you had - where you also over-shared).
Good luck and glad you ended it ok.