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FBI agent loses his gun while dancing

FBrinson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
298
Location
Henrico, VA
Apparently, this off-duty FBI agent failed to retain his gun while dancing and shot someone while picking up the gun. A retention holster would have been the first step in preventing this. Keeping his finger off the trigger would have been another..

Link to story is HERE

What happened?
A video of the incident shows the agent dancing as a group of scantily-clad women stood watching. He offers what might be his best move — a backflip into a handstand. But the agent’s gun fell out of his waistband holster during the spectacle. The agent stumbles, reaches for his gun, accidentally grabs the trigger, and fires one round into a man’s leg.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Jul 12, 2011
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3,430
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northern wis
He offers what might be his best move — a backflip into a handstand

I don't even know if I would trust a simple thumb break with that move.

The gravity or friction lock did not work very well.

Having seen to many handguns hit the ground during physical activity I believe in positive retention holsters.
 
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since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Violating about three cardinal rules of carry:

1. You're carrying a deadly weapon, so no horsing around.

2. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to destroy the target at which you're aiming.

3. Use a Level 2 retention holster or better

Any one of these three cardinal rules, if followed, would have prevented this debacle.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina
First off that was not dancing, more like a spaz attack, plus a terrible back-flip. If I had to score it a possible 3 on a scale of 1 to 10, and that is being generous.

I get the impression this agent was not at the top of his class at Quantico, probably the class idiot. Certainly blows away the image of a FBI agent being super cool man in black.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
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Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,430
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northern wis
His actions might meet 1 sub b can they prove he was acting recklessly Is dancing reckless, is picking up a firearm after if fell from ones holster reckless or just prudent

Sub d pending on his level of intoxication if any, I believe CO. is .08 state for this matter


.18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons

(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:
(a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or

(b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or

(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 18-18-102 (5


Illegal discharge of a firearm most likely wouldn't apply because he never discharge his firearm into a building he already inside and the discharge happen while he was inside.

B]18-12-107.5. Illegal discharge of a firearm - penalty

(1) Any person who knowingly or recklessly discharges a firearm into any dwelling or any other building or occupied structure, or into any motor vehicle occupied by any person, commits the offense of illegal discharge of a firearm[/B].

Charging some one and getting a conviction is totally different.

Just because a unintentional discharge happen doesn't mean a crime did.
 
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gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
782
Location
Central Ky.
You don't carry a firearm in the small of your back, period.

Oh really! Who made that rule? Cite, please. I know people that have carried SOB for decades. It is so common that there are even SOB holsters. I have, upon occasion, stuck my firearm into the small of my back, myself. What I have not done while carrying in any manner is back flips. Instead of worrying about where and how people carry, I suggest we concentrate on their behavior while carrying. Doing back flips and hand stands is not a reccomended safe handling procedure. If people refrain from such dangerous behavior the gun will, generally, be just fine in the SOB.

SOB and not accidentally shooting anyone is certainly preferable to shooting someone accidentally while carrying any other place.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina
reck·less
ˈrekləs/
adjective
adjective: reckless

(of a person or their actions) without thinking or caring about the consequences of an action.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
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here nc
Laughing stock in the office is I am sure the worst to occur to the wayward dancing agent.

As OC stated & even if the agent had been drinking adult alcoholic beverages ~ slap on the wrist and departmental disciplinary comment in their personnel file.

Now another thought...who is responsible for the wounded individual’s medical bills, especially since the agent wasn’t on the clock so the agency shouldn’t [heavy emphasis the term “shouldn’t”] be on hook!

Story overcome by uber shooting, overcome by ?
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
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here nc
google is useful...

18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons

18-12-107.5. Illegal discharge of a firearm - penalty

As a federal agent, local judicial statutes would not apply to him, but the agent might have violated federal LEOSA statatory mandates. For example, prohibits carrying firearms when under the influence of alcohol or any intoxicating or hallucinatory substance. Unquote. 926B (C)(5) and 926C (C)(6).; as well as LEOSA does not supersede state laws permitting private property owners from limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons on their property.This would include public bars, private clubs, and places, such as amusement parks. 926B(b)(1) and § 926C(b)(1).
 
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color of law

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Oct 7, 2007
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5,946
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Oh really! Who made that rule? Cite, please. I know people that have carried SOB for decades. It is so common that there are even SOB holsters. I have, upon occasion, stuck my firearm into the small of my back, myself. What I have not done while carrying in any manner is back flips. Instead of worrying about where and how people carry, I suggest we concentrate on their behavior while carrying. Doing back flips and hand stands is not a reccomended safe handling procedure. If people refrain from such dangerous behavior the gun will, generally, be just fine in the SOB.

SOB and not accidentally shooting anyone is certainly preferable to shooting someone accidentally while carrying any other place.
Just one example:
https://www.usacarry.com/small-of-the-back-carry/
With small of the back carry, your gun sits more or less over your spine, and specifically over the lumbar spine and pelvis. Aside from hips and kneecaps, these are some of the most vital areas involved in ambulatory function. The lumbar spine is practically the foundation of the body; if it isn’t working well, everything else suffers.
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
782
Location
Central Ky.

You don't carry a firearm in the small of your back, period.


Oh really! Who made that rule? Cite, please. I know people that have carried SOB for decades. It is so common that there are even SOB holsters. I have, upon occasion, stuck my firearm into the small of my back, myself. What I have not done while carrying in any manner is back flips. Instead of worrying about where and how people carry, I suggest we concentrate on their behavior while carrying. Doing back flips and hand stands is not a reccomended safe handling procedure. If people refrain from such dangerous behavior the gun will, generally, be just fine in the SOB.

SOB and not accidentally shooting anyone is certainly preferable to shooting someone accidentally while carrying any other place.

The first two sentences from the article you quoted:

"Ever tried small of the back carry? It engenders some divided opinion in the concealed carry community. Some people prefer it for various reasons. Others would warn you away, and also for various reasons."

I don't see anything even close to "you don't carry a firearm in the small of your back, period". In fact, the existence of an article on SOB carry indicates how common it is.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
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here nc
let's see paul Harvey's point of view with the rest of the article, instead of the self promoting first sentence: quote

...there are some ramifications that a person may want to consider before engaging in it.

Drawing from the small of the back involves a longer arm motion, as well as tucking the hand behind the back. This motion is far more inefficient than other draw strokes, which can make good purchase on the pistol more difficult. Presentation likewise is more complicated than drawing from the hip or appendix position. A jacket or other cover garment will complicate matters even further. …
it bears mentioning that it is much less intuitive than the dominant carry positions.

There is also the practical matter of the interaction of the pistol and holster while seated. A gun on the hip can make finding a comfortable sitting position in a chair or car seat more.
If carrying a full-size pistol at the small of the back in an IWB holster, you can easily wind up sitting on the gun

...the other practical consideration to carrying with a small of the back holster is that of the potential for injury. …
reports of police officers that fell on their SOB carry gun, causing a lower back injury that rendered them either disabled or forced medical retirement.

...given the challenges of comfort, the draw and the potential for injury, small of the back carry is really not the best manner in which to conceal a pistol, which is why some people only employ it in carrying a backup gun.

Even in that regard, there are still better options.

And that is the rest of the story!
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