Great Article "Street robberies and you - The Basics"

[Jason in WI]

Just read an article written by a LEO on on another forum I frequent. It sorta ties into the discussion on the recent Aldis holdup and the scenarios people are playing out. I thought it was a great reed, written by someone who seems to have a lot of knowledge.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285487_Street_robberies_and_you___The_Basics.html&page=1

Personally I'm going to share this with a few people I know, it should really open their eyes. I thought I'd share it here since most of us already carry for protection.

I didn't get permission to repost so here are some short blurbs...

Lately in GD we have had two different board members find themselves looking down the barrel of a gun along with the GF of another ARFCOMMER in street robberies. Also Blitz308 got shot all to pieces last year.

While many say it is better to be lucky than good, no one is lucky every time. In this post I am going to attempt to provide some insight into street encounters. Other may have different viewpoints. I am not here to argue. I will say some of the comments I have seen posted in the threads about this sort of matter make me realize that while some ARFCOMMERS are clearly street veterans others are not. This is really for those who are not.

When to shoot

The time to shoot is immediately upon seeing his weapon. You are not a police man who has to try to arrest the guy. No need to scream at him. No exposure while you yell for him to drop the gun.

In deer hunting the experienced hunter takes the first good shot. May not be the perfect shot but it never is. Novices pass up a doable shot waiting for a better shot and then the deer is gone. Take the first good shot you are offered. Hopefully your alertness and hostile cues will prevent you ever having to fire. But once you see his weapon, shoot.

If a guy is coming at you with a gun in his hand shoot him. Shoot him right then. If you don't shoot first you may not shoot at all. I have known more than one person who was shot and received life changing injuries and also shot their attacker. Their only regret was not shooting sooner. Like Bill Jordan said "Nothing disturbs your enemy's aim like a slug delivered to the belt buckle area".

 

[davegran]

Just read an article written by a LEO on on another forum I frequent. It sorta ties into the discussion on the recent Aldis holdup and the scenarios people are playing out. I thought it was a great reed, written by someone who seems to have a lot of knowledge....

Thanks for the link; this is important information. :idea:

 

[rcawdor57]

Good Read! Thanks For Posting!

Something else to discuss today at the "Get together....".


Thanks again!

Link to "Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted"...FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/leoka-2010

 

[E6chevron]

Jason in WI,

rcawdor57,

Thank you for the links. Very good and thought provoking article. It is important, to appreciate the point of view, when reading the main article. I still want to make sure, that I am not "assuming" situations, that do not exist.

If I am walking out of a parking lot, heading for my apartment, and see three young men come into the parking lot, and then fan out, and they do not back away when I unzip my jacket, they could be a gang of robbers, working on surrounding me, and forcing me to have several targets to defend against. They also could be 3 friends who have just left a birthday party, and are fanning out to jump in their 3 separate cars and drive home.

If I draw my weapon on them, they may think that I am the ROBBER!

And since the rule is to shoot at a drawn gun, they would draw and shoot at me, no shouting warnings, no attempts to withdraw. As I understood it, we both were following the advice of the article. At least 1 non-criminal, innocent gun carrier will be shot! I'm not comfortable with these rules of engagement.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

Some good advise.

When to shoot varis in every situation and most likely has to be made in a spilt second. Most likely there will be other clues then just seeing a weapon.

But being alert with situational awareness and being prepared goes a long ways to surviveing.

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

If I am walking out of a parking lot, heading for my apartment, and see three young men come into the parking lot, and then fan out, and they do not back away when I unzip my jacket, they could be a gang of robbers, working on surrounding me, and forcing me to have several targets to defend against. They also could be 3 friends who have just left a birthday party, and are fanning out to jump in their 3 separate cars and drive home.

If I draw my weapon on them, they may think that I am the ROBBER!

And since the rule is to shoot at a drawn gun, they would draw and shoot at me, no shouting warnings, no attempts to withdraw. As I understood it, we both were following the advice of the article. At least 1 non-criminal, innocent gun carrier will be shot! I'm not comfortable with these rules of engagement.

You are not privileged to use deadly force in WI against 3 guys who are simply walking towards you and ignore your unzipped jacket. If your first and only line of defense is your holstered firearm, you have painted yourself into a corner. Although there is a fine line between drawing too early and drawing too late, I would rely on evasion as a first line of defense.

 

[Ken56]

I had this conversation with a friend last week after he told me a guy came up to him in a parking lot and asked for "a light". He said he told him he didn't smoke and the guy left. I told him he was lucky. Thats their "in" to check you out. My friend even has his CPL and said he doesn't usually carry. Now thats a big ???. I told him he better start. He knows that I open carry and conceal carry and I said that I am never bothered by guys asking for anything when they see my pistol on my hip. Great article and good advice there. Listen to it.

 

[Outdoorsman1]

Snip... (Worth Repeating)...

When to shoot

The time to shoot is immediately upon seeing his weapon. You are not a police man who has to try to arrest the guy. No need to scream at him. No exposure while you yell for him to drop the gun.

In deer hunting the experienced hunter takes the first good shot. May not be the perfect shot but it never is. Novices pass up a doable shot waiting for a better shot and then the deer is gone. Take the first good shot you are offered. Hopefully your alertness and hostile cues will prevent you ever having to fire. But once you see his weapon, shoot.

If a guy is coming at you with a gun in his hand shoot him. Shoot him right then. If you don't shoot first you may not shoot at all. I have known more than one person who was shot and received life changing injuries and also shot their attacker. Their only regret was not shooting sooner. Like Bill Jordan said "Nothing disturbs your enemy's aim like a slug delivered to the belt buckle area".

Kinda goes hand in hand with my new signature line...

Outdoorsman1

 

[RR_Broccoli]

Jason in WI,

rcawdor57,

Thank you for the links. Very good and thought provoking article. It is important, to appreciate the point of view, when reading the main article. I still want to make sure, that I am not "assuming" situations, that do not exist.

If I am walking out of a parking lot, heading for my apartment, and see three young men come into the parking lot, and then fan out, and they do not back away when I unzip my jacket, they could be a gang of robbers, working on surrounding me, and forcing me to have several targets to defend against. They also could be 3 friends who have just left a birthday party, and are fanning out to jump in their 3 separate cars and drive home.

If I draw my weapon on them, they may think that I am the ROBBER!

And since the rule is to shoot at a drawn gun, they would draw and shoot at me, no shouting warnings, no attempts to withdraw. As I understood it, we both were following the advice of the article. At least 1 non-criminal, innocent gun carrier will be shot! I'm not comfortable with these rules of engagement.

If you worry about this, or find this a reason not to shoot, you shouldn't carry a gun. Just take running lessons instead.

Your described situation is a complete, total, and utter failure of situational awareness. Body language, your other options, their starting position, your options for escape, etc. all play into these decisions. You should read the article (and the rest of the thread for the other stories) to learn where to start, then practice knowing what's going on around you at all times. Or, just leave your gun at home. Carrying is a huge responsibility and if you think your little story is a hole in the stated point of view of the long-time experienced police officer that wrote it, you shouldn't have a gun in your possession because you are NOT thinking enough.

 

[Herr Heckler Koch]

...you shouldn't have a gun in your possession because you are NOT thinking enough.

Cummon, be nice. He's doin' great for an E-6 PO1.

 

[E6chevron]

If you worry about this, or find this a reason not to shoot, you shouldn't carry a gun. Just take running lessons instead.

Your described situation is a complete, total, and utter failure of situational awareness. Body language, your other options, their starting position, your options for escape, etc. all play into these decisions. You should read the article (and the rest of the thread for the other stories) to learn where to start, then practice knowing what's going on around you at all times. Or, just leave your gun at home. Carrying is a huge responsibility and if you think your little story is a hole in the stated point of view of the long-time experienced police officer that wrote it, you shouldn't have a gun in your possession because you are NOT thinking enough.

If I hadn't read the article, thoroughly, I wouldn't have grasped the article's quick and simple rules, that followed in my theoretical situation, ended with the bad result. I do have many shortcomings, but NOT thinking enough, isn't one of them.

Thanks for the advice on whether I should carry or not, if I make my choice based on others opinions, I'll send you a ballot.

 

[Sorcice]

if I make my choice based on others opinions, I'll send you a ballot.

I loled! I'm gonna steal this hah.

 

[theoicarry]

Great Article. Gives one lots of things to ponder.