Hand cuff question..

[nh92d]

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my brother in-law gave me a pair of his old hand cuffs from back when he was a M.P.

the thought of adding them to m normal belt load of stuff has crossed my mind.question is-is there a law againest a citizen carrying them.if i had to use em to subdue a B.G. ,could i be charged with kid napping ?

so far,i've only just today put the holster for em on my belt while around the house to see how it rode (small of back)..

i really guess i wouldn't need them (crosses fingers while typing that),but what if i decided to..just don't need(nor could afford) a charge againest me for carrying something i shouldn't..



thanks in advance.

 

[ccwinstructor]

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One of my first students in my concealed carry course in Arizona was Dr. David Gershaw, who had to shoot two kidnappers (both of whom died) about 15 years previously. He had been doing ride alongs with police as part of his research, and had handcuffs with him, which he used to confine the third kidnapper as he went for aid.

 

[Hendu024]

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nh92d wrote:

my brother in-law gave me a pair of his old hand cuffs from back when he was a M.P.

the thought of adding them to m normal belt load of stuff has crossed my mind.question is-is there a law againest a citizen carrying them.if i had to use em to subdue a B.G. ,could i be charged with kid napping ?

so far,i've only just today put the holster for em on my belt while around the house to see how it rode (small of back)..

i really guess i wouldn't need them (crosses fingers while typing that),but what if i decided to..just don't need(nor could afford) a charge againest me for carrying something i shouldn't..



thanks in advance.

Most people on here will tell you that it's not a good idea. I would have to agree. Your firearm is to protect you against a threat. Handcuffs are for LEO's to lockdown the BG. My view is that you open yourself to a lot more legal problems if you were to handcuff and 'detain' said BG yourself.

 

[ScottNH]

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I can't come up with a single reason why carrying handcuffs would be a good idea, and plenty of reasons why it's a bad one. I don't know of any school or trainer who advises non-LEO's to carry them. In addition, it's not like you see on TV. Trying to put cuffs on someone if you're not trained in doing it is asking to be beaten or killed.

I recommend you contact-cement some soft velvet inside them and give them to your wife/girl friend.

 

[Ian]

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Do not carry a baton, mace, a taser, or handcuffs. You are not a police officer. Your job is not to apprehend criminals. You carry a firearm to defend yourself and your loved ones from imminent bodily injury or death with LETHAL force if necessary.


All you need is your gun and some back-up mags. Maybe a knife or multi-tool as well.

 

[MarlboroLts5150]

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Ian wrote:

Do not carry a baton, mace, a taser, or handcuffs. You are not a police officer. Your job is not to apprehend criminals. You carry a firearm to defend yourself and your loved ones from imminent bodily injury or death with LETHAL force if necessary.


All you need is your gun and some back-up mags. Maybe a knife or multi-tool as well.

Where is it written that those items are for LEOs only? I keep a baton and cuffsin the glovebox. When I am carrying (been awhile due to my location) the cuffs are in my back pocket. They are only for a"what if".... and that can be anything.

 

[KBCraig]

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Handcuffing is one of the most dangerous things police do, especially when alone, and double especially in an encounter that involves a drawn gun.

How do you transition from gunpoint to handcuffing? Can you re-holster one-handed? Does your holster have any automatic retention features that will be in place without using a thumb snap? Do you even know how to apply handcuffs? And double-lock them? Do you have a cuff key handy, in case you over-tighten? Are you prepared to cover the medical bills caused if you apply them incorrectly and cause permanent nerve damage? Do you understand that handcuffs aren't merely restraints, but are a pain compliance device?

Handcuffs are a very bad idea. They offer no value that would offset the many very bad things that could happen.

 

[MarlboroLts5150]

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KBCraig wrote:

Handcuffing is one of the most dangerous things police do, especially when alone, and double especially in an encounter that involves a drawn gun.
I agree 100%

How do you transition from gunpoint to handcuffing? I put my gun back in its holster. Can you re-holster one-handed? I hope so, I unholstered with one hand. Does your holster have any automatic retention features that will be in place without using a thumb snap? Yes, Blackhawk Serpa. Do you even know how to apply handcuffs? And double-lock them? Do you have a cuff key handy, in case you over-tighten? Yes, trained by the US Navy, I'm a certified non-lethal force instructor, as well as a qualified RSO(range safety officer) and qualified SAMI(small arms marksman instructor). Are you prepared to cover the medical bills caused if you apply them incorrectly and cause permanent nerve damage? Nope, I do know how to use them correctly, and for me personally, as an absolute last resort. Do you understand that handcuffs aren't merely restraints, but are a pain compliance device? Yes I do.

Handcuffs are a very bad idea. They offer no value that would offset the many very bad things that could happen. That sounds just like everything that anti's like the Brady Bunch would say about us carrying a sidearm. Just sayin'.

My answers in red above.


Now granted, I'm just speaking of me personally. Obviously, I have had the training to use them properly, the same as the majority of us here have been trained in the proper use of a firearm. (atleast I hope so...)

nh92d...I would HIGHLY recommend that if you choose to carry them, get some quality training to be able to use them properly without question, and know the laws AND the risks AND the possible repercussions of using them. And I wouldnot recommend carrying them openly. The open carry of our guns in some cases draws enough attention, no need to add to that IMO.

 

[ccwinstructor]

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Excellent reply. Thanks for sharing your expertise.

 

[MarlboroLts5150]

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ccwinstructor wrote:

Excellent reply. Thanks for sharing your expertise.

Anytime.....after all, thats what we are all here for, right? :celebrate

 

[NewHampshireNative]

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Ian wrote:

Do not carry a baton, mace, a taser, or handcuffs. You are not a police officer. Your job is not to apprehend criminals. You carry a firearm to defend yourself and your loved ones from imminent bodily injury or death with LETHAL force if necessary.


All you need is your gun and some back-up mags. Maybe a knife or multi-tool as well.

What the hell does that mean? As others have said those items are not just for LEO use. I always carry a less lethal weapon on me because not every encounter calls for lethal force but still calls for some kind of force or a way to defend your self. Having mace is a great way to defend your self when you cant do so with your weapon. I'M not going to get into a fistfight with someone and give them a chance to disarm me.

When I can defend my self and defuse the situation with a stand off weapon. I also have handcuffs I do not carry them but I have them I got them as a gift when I was a kid. I will soon be getting a C2 Taser for my self or my wife to use looking into a baton but have not made up my mind yet. It's true that I carry a gun to defend my life from deadly force but as I have said before not every case calls for deadly force.

You can also carry pepper spray, stun,taser guns in places that you can not by law carry your firearm. ( such as the state house). My load out now is, gerber fast draw knife on my left pocket, CRKT m16-13z on my right pocket,a stream light mircostream on my left pocket, My new S&W M&P 9mm subcompact in a blade-tech nanno IWB holster,one back up mag on my or in the car,mini mag light on my key chain, Saber red pepper spray on my key chain, my watch, a pen and little note pad.

Then in the car or on me is my leather man waive a back up hand held flash light, back up batt's. Looking at picking up a ruger LCR for my ankle. My wife carry's her bersa 380 bi-tone with crimson trace grips, a back up mag, mini pink mag light on her key chain, pink pepper spray on her key chain. We also both carry cheap throw away cell phones. I also have a Phantom holster being made for my M&P by Raven Concealment that will allow me to carry my M&P with my TLR-3 mounted on it IWB. Also going to pick up some Crimson Trace grips. Next we will hear that only LEO should own body armor! Again nothing wrong with owning body armor and wearing it.

 

[NewHampshireNative]

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MarlboroLts5150 wrote:

KBCraig wrote:

Handcuffing is one of the most dangerous things police do, especially when alone, and double especially in an encounter that involves a drawn gun.
I agree 100%

How do you transition from gunpoint to handcuffing? I put my gun back in its holster. Can you re-holster one-handed? I hope so, I unholstered with one hand. Does your holster have any automatic retention features that will be in place without using a thumb snap? Yes, Blackhawk Serpa. Do you even know how to apply handcuffs? And double-lock them? Do you have a cuff key handy, in case you over-tighten? Yes, trained by the US Navy, I'm a certified non-lethal force instructor, as well as a qualified RSO(range safety officer) and qualified SAMI(small arms marksman instructor). Are you prepared to cover the medical bills caused if you apply them incorrectly and cause permanent nerve damage? Nope, I do know how to use them correctly, and for me personally, as an absolute last resort. Do you understand that handcuffs aren't merely restraints, but are a pain compliance device? Yes I do.

Handcuffs are a very bad idea. They offer no value that would offset the many very bad things that could happen. That sounds just like everything that anti's like the Brady Bunch would say about us carrying a sidearm. Just sayin'.

My answers in red above.


Now granted, I'm just speaking of me personally. Obviously, I have had the training to use them properly, the same as the majority of us here have been trained in the proper use of a firearm. (atleast I hope so...)

nh92d...I would HIGHLY recommend that if you choose to carry them, get some quality training to be able to use them properly without question, and know the laws AND the risks AND the possible repercussions of using them. And I wouldnot recommend carrying them openly. The open carry of our guns in some cases draws enough attention, no need to add to that IMO.

I would have to say the same thing. If your going to carry them Carry them concealed you don't need people and LEO thinking your a wannabe cop who walks around with a gun and handcuffs.

 

[MK]

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A woman I know had a son who went onto someone's property and stole a 4 wheeler. The man went driving around town, found the older teen who was legally considered an adult, scuffled with him and then hog tied him and threw him in the back of his pickuptruck.

He drove the teen down to the police station to turn him in and the police freaked out on him. They threatened to arrest and charge him with kidnapping. He ended up working out a deal where he wouldn't push the issue on his property being stolen in return for letting the assault and kidnapping issues be dropped.

That's in Missouri though but I thought I would add that in here anyways because you might want to be darn sure before you lock someone up in a public place. Even if it seems so right, they might think it isn't and the local laws could possibly agree on that.

 

[NewHampshireNative]

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Well what your talking about is a whole another issue. This guy went looking for the person and beat them up and then tied them up and drove way with them. That would be kidnapping in anyone's book. The poster who started this thread was more so asking if it was a good idea to carry them and if he could use them. Should his life be in danger to hold a BG till help comes. As long as you hold them at the scene and do more move them at most you would be looking at false imprisonment charges. That would only happen if your story did not check out and so on. What's the difference between handcuffing the person VS holding the person down by sitting on them or using a belt or some other means to tie their hands?

 

[MarlboroLts5150]

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I will re-iterate what I posted earlier, as I believe it needs repeating......

"I would HIGHLY recommend that if you choose to carry them, get some quality training to be able to use them properly without question, and know the laws AND the risks AND the possible repercussions of using them. And I wouldnot recommend carrying them openly. The open carry of our guns in some cases draws enough attention, no need to add to that IMO."


If your not sure 100% sure about the use of them, then leave them at home.

(edited for spelling)

 

[IndianaBoy79]

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MarlboroLts5150 wrote:

Ian wrote:

Do not carry a baton, mace, a taser, or handcuffs. You are not a police officer. Your job is not to apprehend criminals. You carry a firearm to defend yourself and your loved ones from imminent bodily injury or death with LETHAL force if necessary.


All you need is your gun and some back-up mags. Maybe a knife or multi-tool as well.

Where is it written that those items are for LEOs only? I keep a baton and cuffsin the glovebox. When I am carrying (been awhile due to my location) the cuffs are in my back pocket. They are only for a"what if".... and that can be anything.

It's not so much that these items are only for LEO, it's that it's overkill for everyday dress. A cop wears them to work because a cop is LOOKING for trouble. I actively avoid it. Most cops aren't ambushed drinking coffee at Starbucks, they are actively seeking out bad guys who can do them harm. Most cops I talk to do not carry cuffs while off duty. Many of them carry a personal handgun though. Its the same reason I feel comfortable with a 5 shot revolver instead of a semi-auto...if I was looking for trouble I would want more available.

For me, cell phone, keys, smokes, lighter, knife, small flashlight, speed loader, and gun is all I care to tote....and that's already too much.

 

[Master Doug Huffman]

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De rigueur for mall ninja

 

[TheMrMitch]

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I keep mine in my vehicle. Not my job to arrest (corrections officer) but I will detain if I have to.:dude:

 

[IndianaBoy79]

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Here is something else I thought of about using a taser; In most states, a taser is considered "less lethal force", not "non-lethal"force. If you are justified in pulling a taser, you are justified in pulling the gun. If you don't feel comfortable (legally speaking) pulling a gun out, then you should reconsider taking that taser out as well. You'll be held accountable to the same standards.

 

[MarlboroLts5150]

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IndianaBoy79 wrote:

MarlboroLts5150 wrote:

Ian wrote:

snip

snip

It's not so much that these items are only for LEO, it's that it's overkill for everyday dress. A cop wears them to work because a cop is LOOKING for trouble. I actively avoid it. Most cops aren't ambushed drinking coffee at Starbucks, they are actively seeking out bad guys who can do them harm. Most cops I talk to do not carry cuffs while off duty. Many of them carry a personal handgun though. Its the same reason I feel comfortable with a 5 shot revolver instead of a semi-auto...if I was looking for trouble I would want more available.

For me, cell phone, keys, smokes, lighter, knife, small flashlight, speed loader, and gun is all I care to tote....and that's already too much.

You're right....not at Starbucks....

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=34644&forum_id=55&highlight=police+coffee+shop+shooting