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Illegal detainment at Starbucks in Old Saybrook

Rich B

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Where did I get this idea? I lived there (MD).

I don't think Maryland represents the east coast at all, any more than California represents the west coast or Chicago represents the midwest.

If RKBA was understood and accepted... there would be no 'responding officers'. There would be no 'opinion enforcement'... harrassment. (Article 1: Section 15 of the Connecticut Constitution.)

There is a difference between the officers' lack of understanding and the population as a whole. Again, I have probably encountered at least 1000s of people in my everyday carry and most are as polite as I am. I have never gotten a rude person or had a negative encounter outside of the three incidents I have made public here.

911 dispatcher wouldn't respond in that fashion. The emplyee wouldn't have dropped a dime on you to begin with. Starbucks corporate policy is universally accepted to be IAW state law. The premisis was not posted.

One idiot's opinion does not reflect the opinion of an entire coast.

You need only to read this forum of the many harrassments/arrrests of open carriers in the east... even where state constitutions are clear. VA, PA, GA, DE. I just had a long conversation with a couple from DE (in Tombstone) who said... Yeah... OC is 'legal' in DE... but if you do it you'll get arrested. The majority of the east is hung up on 'permit' as tho RKBA was a privlege granted by the state. That's near endemic with the exception of VT. MD. DC, NJ, NY... forgetaboutit. MA? Seriously? RI? Unicorns maybe. I'm not being disingenious... those are facts. People 'being censored by their employer' does not bode well for acceptance either.

Again, not a whole coast. You are referring to isolated pockets of ignorance. VT, NH and CT are all open carry states that have state constitutions that guarantee our 2A rights in our state as well. In the same way that you list VT as an 'exception' one could easily list Arizona and Utah as an exception when compared to nearby states like Texas and California.

There's nothing humorous about being armed. It's not a fashion statement either.

You don't understand what I said at all then.
 

Sonora Rebel

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So, I'll get another mean PM if I advocate carrying my M-61A1 Vulcan Gattling gun around openly?The OP needs to follow up with no less than an official complaint. The dick sgt needs to be educated before he spreads his moronic interpretation of the law around to other people. Even after he is (evidently) told he was wrong by a superiour, he "doesn't believe it." Typical CT cop. Probably came from MD.

No... you'll get a hernia. (GUN ALONE) The whole LALS unit (loaded) requires a tow cart. You'll also need a battery and motor to wind in the gun and fire the electrically primed 20mm ammo.

Former MD cops are generally uneducable regarding RKBA.
 

Sonora Rebel

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I don't think Maryland represents the east coast at all, any more than California represents the west coast or Chicago represents the midwest.

I never said I was spot-welded in place. The attitude is endemic in the majority of eastern states. Armed citizens have more to fear from the LEA's than bad guys.

There is a difference between the officers' lack of understanding and the population as a whole. Again, I have probably encountered at least 1000s of people in my everyday carry and most are as polite as I am. I have never gotten a rude person or had a negative encounter outside of the three incidents I have made public here.

3 incidents? Just you. And you don't see the problem?

One idiot's opinion does not reflect the opinion of an entire coast.

The idiots opinion was translated by the 911 idiot to the rest of the idiots. How many idiots does it take?



Again, not a whole coast. You are referring to isolated pockets of ignorance. VT, NH and CT are all open carry states that have state constitutions that guarantee our 2A rights in our state as well. In the same way that you list VT as an 'exception' one could easily list Arizona and Utah as an exception when compared to nearby states like Texas and California.

Texas is perfectly fine with CCW at the moment. Cali is just wierd... all over. MD, MA, RI, DC, DE, NY, NJ are not exactly 'isolated pockets'.

You don't understand what I said at all then.
I understand perfectly, This is what people do to attract attention to themselves and even have expectations of confrontations. Otherwise you wouldn't carry a wire. IF the Right was really recognized, there'd be no need for pink shirts or the recorders.
 
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Rich B

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I understand perfectly, This is what people do to attract attention to themselves and even have expectations of confrontations. Otherwise you wouldn't carry a wire. IF the Right was really recognized, there'd be no need for pink shirts or the recorders.

Again, you really need to read the thread. No one wears pink shirts, nor was I even wearing a CCDL shirt.

Also, no one that I know of was 'wearing a wire'.
 

Sonora Rebel

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Again, you really need to read the thread. No one wears pink shirts, nor was I even wearing a CCDL shirt.

Also, no one that I know of was 'wearing a wire'.

"I arm the recorder and start recording." What's that... ? Why have it if not for CYA. Many recommend wearing/carrying such devices in the east. Sorry... sarcasm doesn't come thru. (You wrote of pink CCDL shirts.)

I first went openly heeled in the civilian world in 1966 w/o any expectation of harrassment by any AZ LEO/LEA as a matter of course. I have yet to have an 'encounter' of any kind, with any LEO (County, State, or Federal) in Arizona or New Mexico for being openly armed with anything. That is the free exercise of the right. Now... you can defend the east all you want; but from my perspective it's still problematic.
 

Rich B

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"I arm the recorder and start recording." What's that... ? Why have it if not for CYA. Many recommend wearing/carrying such devices in the east.

Not that it should matter, but I have carried a recorder with me everywhere since I was assaulted in Wallingford but arrested for disorderly despite not being the one who created the situation. After seeing the lies and misinformation put forth by the officers and other parties in the case, I decided that if I am carrying a firearm to defend my life, I should have a way to defend my reputation in the case of some kind of accusation.

I first went openly heeled in the civilian world in 1966 w/o any expectation of harrassment by any AZ LEO/LEA as a matter of course. I have yet to have an 'encounter' of any kind, with any LEO (County, State, or Federal) in Arizona or New Mexico for being openly armed with anything. That is the free exercise of the right. Now... you can defend the east all you want; but from my perspective it's still problematic.

I have yet to 'defend the east'. If anything, I am defending logic and common sense.
 
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Sonora Rebel

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Not that it should matter, but I have carried a recorder with me everywhere since I was assaulted in Wallingford but arrested for disorderly despite not being the one who created the situation. After seeing the lies and misinformation put forth by the officers and other parties in the case, I decided that if I am carrying a firearm to defend my life, I should have a way to defend my reputation in the case of some kind of accusation.



I have yet to 'defend the east'. If anything, I am defending logic and common sense.

Hmmm... whatever. Logic would dictate that if local police and 911 dispatchers don't know the laws of their own states... you still have a problem. That's common sense. That the anti-gun mentality is endemic thruout much of the east, regardless of the actual law, ordinance or regulation is readily apparent. Your Starbucks incident would never happen where the Right was actually recognized.
 

Rich B

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Hmmm... whatever. Logic would dictate that if local police and 911 dispatchers don't know the laws of their own states... you still have a problem. That's common sense. That the anti-gun mentality is endemic thruout much of the east, regardless of the actual law, ordinance or regulation is readily apparent. Your Starbucks incident would never happen where the Right was actually recognized.

I have a serious problem saying that my whole coast or even my whole state is anti-gun or anti-OC due to the actions of a handful of ignorant people.
 

Sonora Rebel

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I have a serious problem saying that my whole coast or even my whole state is anti-gun or anti-OC due to the actions of a handful of ignorant people.

I just got this off a New Mexico thread... "This is probably the best example for the cop who is "afraid of someone with a gun." To his irrational mind, the presence of a firearm in a citizen's hands is a de facto public safety emergency. This fellow needs to go back to New York or Massachusetts where such deranged, paranoia is pervasive. Such an attitude is easily shown to be irrational." http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?73887-Open-carry-trouble&p=1374080#post1374080

The post goes on: "1. Armed does NOT imply Dangerous. This is New Mexico; unless otherwise disenfranchised, private citizens have a constitutional right to keep and openly carry firearms. There are a few restrictions on concealed carry, but they do not apply to a person's home, vehicle, the permitted actions on property of another, or most public places. We also have licensed concealed carry and honor similar licenses from other states. Such constitutionally protected or licensed acts cannot by themselves reasonably merit any government intrusion any more than saying "hello" (1st Amendment) or driving a car (66-5-2 NMSA).† There must be more: an objective, individualized, articulable reasoned suspicion that this person is dangerous.

2. There is no reason for officer safety to be compromised by honoring your oath to uphold a person's constitutional rights. As a preliminary posture on this issue, some officer's rightly say, "My first duty is to go home safely tonight." They are wrong! Their first duty and your first duty, a sworn duty, is to honor and uphold the U.S. Constitution. Be observant; act reasonably on what you observe. Document that process. Legal intrusions will be upheld by the courts.

3. Feel Threatened? Document Why! The facts you observe will dictate whether you feel threatened or not. In some irrational jurisdictions such as New York City, a citizen's mere possession of a firearm may ground reasonable suspicion that he's breaking the law and that he is dangerous. However, in New Mexico, such a conclusion is both unjustified and illegal. If a concern for your safety is based only on a person's possession of a firearm or this feeling is only based on a hunch: increase your security-awareness posture. But a compulsory intrusion is not justified. If your concern is based on objective, individualized, articulable facts, then note them and record that you have formed the requisite reasonable suspicion and act accordingly. However, absent at least reasonable suspicion of the threat of danger, you cannot legally interfere with a person's right to be left alone."

Dude... it's beyond common knowledge that the anti-gun attitude is pervasive thruout the eastern states. Pay attention to details.
 

Rich B

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Dude... it's beyond common knowledge that the anti-gun attitude is pervasive thruout the eastern states. Pay attention to details.

Again, New York is not Connecticut anymore than California is Arizona. But I really have no idea what your point or goal in all of this is.

Are you just here to brag about your state's laws? To complain about our state laws? How is either relevant to the topic at hand?

I also find it odd that you link to an article set in New Mexico where the incident was much, much worse than my incident. Using your reasoning and logic I can assume that New Mexico is an anti-gun state like New York?
 
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Sonora Rebel

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Again, New York is not Connecticut anymore than California is Arizona. But I really have no idea what your point or goal in all of this is.

Are you just here to brag about your state's laws? To complain about our state laws? How is either relevant to the topic at hand?

The ATTITUDE ingrained in eastern LEA's, Media, Educational institutions and Politicians is endemic. CT is a small state (My county is bigger than CT) subject to external influences (NY a & MA especially). Again from the NM thread: "Timid? Find a new job. Finally, if honoring a citizen's constitutional rights is a problem for you, that is, if, ceteris paribus, you are intimidated by nothing more than another person with a firearm, you have no business being a police officer in New Mexico." (Or anywhere else for that matter.) I think that's relevant enough.
 

Gunslinger

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No... you'll get a hernia. (GUN ALONE) The whole LALS unit (loaded) requires a tow cart. You'll also need a battery and motor to wind in the gun and fire the electrically primed 20mm ammo.

Former MD cops are generally uneducable regarding RKBA.

I fired them in F-4s, didn't have to carry them openly, however. They were slung on inboard armorment pylons in pairs, or in the nose of an E model...Very disappointed with the "BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPP" sound instead of nice machine gun noises; but 6000 rounds pm doesn't sound like anything else...

As Maryland is a socialist workers paradise, the cops should be very happy there and stay the hell away from free states.
 

OCinCT

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Old Saybrook Starbucks

Enjoying a cup of Pike and an oatmeal cookie as I type this. No apparent notice or alarm from any of the customers or staff. Oh well.
 

Rich B

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Enjoying a cup of Pike and an oatmeal cookie as I type this. No apparent notice or alarm from any of the customers or staff. Oh well.

I never had a problem there before that day either. I doubt anyone will have an issue there again either.

Odd though, I was promised by the manager of that store and by the corporate office that I would get a call from the District Manager to resolve all of this. I have received nothing.

Go figure.
 

Grapeshot

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I never had a problem there before that day either. I doubt anyone will have an issue there again either.

Odd though, I was promised by the manager of that store and by the corporate office that I would get a call from the District Manager to resolve all of this. I have received nothing.

Go figure.

Perhaps a friendly email or phone call to remind them that you are still waiting?
 
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