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Iowa OC and HOA's

redsox

Newbie
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Sep 27, 2015
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clive
Iowa is OC provided you have a valid Iowa CCW- I rent a townhouse with a homeowners assoc and PITA neighbors. I go to my mailbox or car and have my Kimber on me, always holstered. The landlord and property manager INSISTED I show my CCW to THEM! They are not LEO and INHO have NO LEGAL right to veiw my CCW- of course you cant get any of these local gun groups to give you a straight answer ( though they want your donations) or attorneys either- and ill pay a billable hour! Im legal in the Staes eyes- so where does it say I have to prove that to you? go call the cops- im sure theyll tell you or maybe that CCW info is PRIVATE like HIPPA law?- anyonelse go through this nonsense?

thanx
 

solus

Regular Member
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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,520
Location
here nc
welcome & thanks for OC'g in IA...

first the normal caveat...INAL and you get what you paid for...

1. i have dealt w/HOAs numerous times and i have found once they get a burr under their saddle about something they can be extremely difficult to live with as they see no problem spending you and your neighbour's HOA dues on their associate HOA attorney being confrontational with you. One association i was involved with went so far as to secretly add a clause to the conventions to pursue me. only thing that saved me was i had a copy of the olde documentation, they on the other hand could not produce the initiation of or approval of documentation leading to the instituted convention changes they were pursuing me over. magistrate laughed at them, made them pay my attorney, and then threw them out of his chambers telling them they were on notice to not try it again or they would be held severely accountable.

2. since you rent, check your lease and then contact the local state/community renters association and ask for assistance. they may have insight on the association and can advise you accordingly.

i feel you will find you must either spend $$$ or capitulate to their power play.

a final note... i am afraid you will discern the one stirring the pot is the rental mgmt mgr who is on a significant power trip. try to ascertain who is the actual owner and send a letter to them appealing for relief of this perceived form of harassment as you like living there.

ipse
 
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Ezek

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
411
Location
missouri
HOA's.. a pain in the butt, it's like a union for your neighbors to force you to give in to their whims.

why I will never buy a house in an HOA, I enjoy free choice too much.
 

redsox

Newbie
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
6
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clive
Not quite!

You have a landlord, an HOA and neighbors. The neighbors are likely a non-issue legally. The HOA likely has a restrictive covenant and a lawyer. YOU have a contract with your landlord.
Thanx anyway but there never was any box or proscription in the lease or by laws that mentioned any handgun. One thing I do know- Stae law trumps HOA or a lease- im legal so the only entity in this state that can dictate where and how I carry my weapon is the State of Iowa. No HOA or Landlord is a lawmaker or ( in this case) a law enforcer. As long as im legal they cant do anything but annoy me, and ive been married 3 times so - this is kid stuff. I sent a letter to the HOA/Edge management LLC that Jesus would get back on the cross before they saw my CCW and while they were at it to get a court order! For those who are offended by my lack of Piety I do appologize- but you cant let the camel in the tent. I like Iowa so far but it has a looooong way to go on gun rights
 

amaixner

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
306
Location
Linn County, Iowa
Iowa is OC provided you have a valid Iowa CCW- I rent a townhouse with a homeowners assoc and PITA neighbors. I go to my mailbox or car and have my Kimber on me, always holstered. The landlord and property manager INSISTED I show my CCW to THEM! They are not LEO and INHO have NO LEGAL right to veiw my CCW- of course you cant get any of these local gun groups to give you a straight answer ( though they want your donations) or attorneys either- and ill pay a billable hour! Im legal in the Staes eyes- so where does it say I have to prove that to you? go call the cops- im sure theyll tell you or maybe that CCW info is PRIVATE like HIPPA law?- anyonelse go through this nonsense?

thanx
Not sure which "local gun group" wouldn't answer the question, as I did not see it posted on the forum of the only Iowa gun group actively having legislation passed by any branch of the legislature (IFC and NRA).

To answer your question though, as a life member of IFC: you can politely tell them to shove it, and if they doubt, to call the cops. Only LEOs have the power to compel you to show a permit, and, technically, due to a court precedent set this year, if you are not concealing and have a permit, you don't actually have to show your permit to them (but you will be extremely inconvenienced if you don't, and it's a unintended loophole in the grammar of the law, so much easier to show it and be on your way instead of showing up in court later, with your expensive lawyer, to have it dismissed).
 
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solus

Regular Member
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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,520
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here nc
Thanx anyway but there never was any box or proscription in the lease or by laws that mentioned any handgun. One thing I do know- Stae law trumps HOA or a lease- im legal so the only entity in this state that can dictate where and how I carry my weapon is the State of Iowa. No HOA or Landlord is a lawmaker or ( in this case) a law enforcer. As long as im legal they cant do anything but annoy me, and ive been married 3 times so - this is kid stuff. I sent a letter to the HOA/Edge management LLC that Jesus would get back on the cross before they saw my CCW and while they were at it to get a court order! For those who are offended by my lack of Piety I do appologize- but you cant let the camel in the tent. I like Iowa so far but it has a looooong way to go on gun rights
why did you post your original drive by statement if you were already of a mind to be cranky to those who respond?

why didn't you just post you had sent a letter, with caveat of your lack of piety initially?

and why in the world do i care you suck at maintaining any type of relationships? btw, i believe you will discern your relationship with your HOA will be short lived also...

ipse
 

redsox

Newbie
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
6
Location
clive
same old crap

why did you post your original drive by statement if you were already of a mind to be cranky to those who respond?

why didn't you just post you had sent a letter, with caveat of your lack of piety initially?

and why in the world do i care you suck at maintaining any type of relationships? btw, i believe you will discern your relationship with your HOA will be short lived also...

ipse
I love this state- Iowa- you cry about suppressor legislation and you have no 'Stand your ground' and STILL have a 'duty to retreat' on the books - so your IFC and all the other Due's beggars dont have any REAL powert or just cant control their politicos. And as far as this guys blurb? Another internet tough guy, and the HOA? lets go to court and ill lein you forever, sorry I woke you up
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,520
Location
here nc
I love this state- Iowa- you cry about suppressor legislation and you have no 'Stand your ground' and STILL have a 'duty to retreat' on the books - so your IFC and all the other Due's beggars dont have any REAL powert or just cant control their politicos. And as far as this guys blurb? Another internet tough guy, and the HOA? lets go to court and ill lein you forever, sorry I woke you up
thanks for making my point so elegantly...

ipse
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,264
Location
Iowa, USA
Iowa is OC provided you have a valid Iowa CCW- I rent a townhouse with a homeowners assoc and PITA neighbors. I go to my mailbox or car and have my Kimber on me, always holstered. The landlord and property manager INSISTED I show my CCW to THEM! They are not LEO and INHO have NO LEGAL right to veiw my CCW- of course you cant get any of these local gun groups to give you a straight answer ( though they want your donations) or attorneys either- and ill pay a billable hour! Im legal in the Staes eyes- so where does it say I have to prove that to you? go call the cops- im sure theyll tell you or maybe that CCW info is PRIVATE like HIPPA law?- anyonelse go through this nonsense?

thanx
Your permit to carry is by no means private. There was a county that printed the names of each permit holder that resided there in the newspaper, dont remember which one.

I AM NOT A LAWYER, take the following advice as opinion and seek your own council.

As far as I know, and from previous "tenant v landlord" disputes, when you lease/rent property from another, the home, as well as all necessary egress and ingress locations to access your leased property, yard, structure, fence, etc, are yours to use as long as you are still in good standing with your organizations contract. I.E. Your rent is up to date, you lawn is mowed, windows clean, etc. The only issue is with the contract. If your contract states "No firearms except in your home..." or something along those lines, then I think you have to abide. It is "their" property.

However, there is nothing written in Iowa Code 724 that states that you are required to show your permit to anyone other than a peace officer. The next time they ask, tell them to do the following. Call the police. They are landlords, not cops. They have no authority to require you to show your permit. If they continue to harass, call them yourself.

Take the time to read THIS thoroughly. And contact an attorney who specializes in Tenant/Landlord disputes. They usually will at least chat with you about the situation before charging you anything. Good luck and keep us posted.
 

IA_farmboy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
494
Location
Linn County, Iowa, USA
Unfortunately for the original poster I'm on the side of the HOA, at least for now. Contract law is older than government, not just the government of Iowa, or the USA, but the entire concept of a government. A government is nothing but an extension of the concept of a contract, it is a contract among the people. If the HOA has a policy on firearms, and you signed it, then you have bound yourself to its rules. If that means showing a permit then that means you show your permit.

In Cedar Rapids there is a monthly open carry night at Godfather's Pizza in the Town and Country Shopping Center, to enter with your firearm you must show your permit. Private property owners, under state law, may permit people to enter armed, or not, or place conditions on your being armed. That may include having to show a state issued permit. With a HOA the HOA board retains partial ownership of your property. Partial ownership of property is another concept that has long standing in law. As they retain partial ownership they have a say on what you can do on "your" land, that includes having to show a permit to carry your Kimber openly as you walk to and from your mailbox.

I have not read the HOA agreement you signed, obviously, so I don't know what you agreed to when you rented your property. Unless you can show that the HOA do not have a say on the open carry of weapons then I would assume that they do retain the right to demand to see your permit. You might be able to argue otherwise in court but I don't see a whole lot of precedence in your favor.

Of course that is my opinion, and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.
 

IA_farmboy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
494
Location
Linn County, Iowa, USA
There was a county that printed the names of each permit holder that resided there in the newspaper, dont remember which one.
As I recall the Des Moines Register used to print the Polk County permit to carry holders' names, and the Cedar Rapids Gazette would print the Linn County list of names. Those two lists cover 20% of the state population. I'm not sure if the Telegraph Herald printed the list of names from Dubuque County but it would not be out of character for them.
 

redsox

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Sep 27, 2015
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clive
Wrong!

As I recall the Des Moines Register used to print the Polk County permit to carry holders' names, and the Cedar Rapids Gazette would print the Linn County list of names. Those two lists cover 20% of the state population. I'm not sure if the Telegraph Herald printed the list of names from Dubuque County but it would not be out of character for them.
First off- a state that has a CCW but no STY or has Duty to retreat laws has no effective CCW protection and if you think thats wrong look at the multitude of other states that have SYG and NO duty to retreat. I protect mself against a felon and the cops put me in jail? I dont think so, and ill tell the cops the same thing. FYI- after a lot of research on my part ( and yes I contacted all the gun groups mentioned here and got nothing cause they dont know) 724 23 it states the records of all CCW holders- WAS- public record but is no longer - read it and youll see as of the previous legislature you need a COURT ORDER or my consent. Did I get this info from the gun groups I used to pay dues too? nope- so what good are they? console the poor sap who went to jail for protecting himself? thats pretty lame, in any state. So no- according to new law I dont have to show squat to non leo without a court order. Get some stand your ground laws in Iowa cause if you use your CCW, IFC and IGO cant help you- your on your own, ( but they sure cry for those dues!- the money they WASTE on mailings should be spent on buying legislation) Do a 'search' on how many states have SYG in this country and youll soon see how behind the eight ball Iowa is for citizen protection.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
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here nc
First off- a state that has a CCW but no STY or has Duty to retreat laws has no effective CCW protection and if you think thats wrong look at the multitude of other states that have SYG and NO duty to retreat. I protect mself against a felon and the cops put me in jail? I dont think so, and ill tell the cops the same thing. FYI- after a lot of research on my part ( and yes I contacted all the gun groups mentioned here and got nothing cause they dont know) 724 23 it states the records of all CCW holders- WAS- public record but is no longer - read it and youll see as of the previous legislature you need a COURT ORDER or my consent. Did I get this info from the gun groups I used to pay dues too? nope- so what good are they? console the poor sap who went to jail for protecting himself? thats pretty lame, in any state. So no- according to new law I dont have to show squat to non leo without a court order. Get some stand your ground laws in Iowa cause if you use your CCW, IFC and IGO cant help you- your on your own, ( but they sure cry for those dues!- the money they WASTE on mailings should be spent on buying legislation) Do a 'search' on how many states have SYG in this country and youll soon see how behind the eight ball Iowa is for citizen protection.
am kinda impressed red how you morf'd the thread from your drive by HOA rant to an entirely different multiple topic tirade...

ipse
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,337
Location
Valhalla
This thread manages to mix complaints that involve little with RKBA and more to do with real estate law.

Rants are not well received here - you are either part of the solution or you are part of the problem. Just complaining grows wearisome.

Further, attacks on gun rights groups, except for their opposition to open carry, is a violation of Forum Rules.

Those seeking to disrupt, should consider this as a warning.
 
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IA_farmboy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
494
Location
Linn County, Iowa, USA
724 23 it states the records of all CCW holders- WAS- public record but is no longer - read it and youll see as of the previous legislature you need a COURT ORDER or my consent.
I was merely responding to Tucker's recollection that CCW names USED TO be printed in the newspaper but could not recall which county that happened in. I know the Des Moines Register has posted a list of names in the past. I recall hearing from others that the Cedar Rapids Gazette had printed the names in the past. I vaguely recall that perhaps the Telegraph Herald has also done so. I did not claim that this practice continues.

I assumed that it was common knowledge on this forum that permit to carry records were no longer public, if that confused you then I apologize for not making that clear in my earlier post.

Also, I did state quite clearly in my earlier post that it was merely my opinion, given what I know of Iowa law and precedent, that a property owner can demand to see your permit if you are armed on their property. It is my opinion that unless you show your permit you are do not have permission to be armed on property in which the HOA retains even partial ownership. It is my opinion that until you show your permit you risk being evicted.

You asked two questions in your original post, where does it state in law that you must show your permit, and has this happened to me. In Iowa code 724.4, paragraph 4, the exceptions to having to having to possess a permit are listed. While not stated explicitly it is implied that the owner of the property may give permission to possess weapons on their property. As you stated you do not own the property, you lease it. The manager of the property has stated you may get his permission to carry so long as you show him you have been licensed by the state. Therefore, in my opinion, you must show your permit.

As to your second question, I was a property owner before I was a gun owner so I have not been in the same position as you.

I understand that you do not agree with my opinion. Getting angry with me is not going to change my position. What might change my mind is more information on what was in the lease agreement that you signed. It seems you are not in the mood to share that information, which is fine by me as I believe I am not in the mood to read your lease agreement.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,337
Location
Valhalla
"A political subdivision of the state shall not enact an ordinance regulating the ownership, possession, legal transfer, lawful transportation, registration, or licensing of firearms when the ownership, possession, transfer, or transportation is otherwise lawful under the laws of this state."
http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/cool-ice/default.asp?category=billinfo&service=iowacode&ga=83&input=724.28

Help needed - Is a HOA a political subdivision of the state in Iowa? I don't know yet - haven't determined. They are considered such in some states.

Is this effective in this instance? I think it might be.
https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/2015/499B.10.pdf
https://www.legis.iowa.gov/law/iowaCode/sections?codeChapter=499B&year=2015
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
Originally Posted by Grapeshot

"A political subdivision of the state shall not enact an ordinance regulating the ownership, possession, legal transfer, lawful transportation, registration, or licensing of firearms when the ownership, possession, transfer, or transportation is otherwise lawful under the laws of this state."
[ ... ]
Help needed - Is a HOA a political subdivision of the state in Iowa? I don't know yet - haven't determined. They are considered such in some states.[ ... ]
Iowa Code CHAPTER 23A NONCOMPETITION BY GOVERNMENT
23A.1 DEFINITIONS.
As used in this chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:
1. "Political subdivision" means a city, county, or school
corporation.

http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/cool-i...code&input=23A
Not. Formation not being subject to election.
I found that also. Note the words, "As used in this chapter."

That chapter is about the competative bidding process. I see no connection to HOA making rules - none, nada.

The question stll stands unanswered.
 
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