Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Abuse of Discretion is a very hard hill to climb.
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Judge rules for the 2A
- Thread starter swinokur
- Start date
Abuse of Discretion is a very hard hill to climb.
Well I'm certainly praying that all goes well but I won't hold my breath... I'm 19, I was reading that in MD you can be 18 and apply for the permit,
http://opencarry.org/age.html
So assuming this all goes through, I'll be applying for one if possible. But if you have to be 21 to buy a hand gun, how would you carry? Is it against the law to carry for example, one of my dads pistols if I have his permission?
http://opencarry.org/age.html
So assuming this all goes through, I'll be applying for one if possible. But if you have to be 21 to buy a hand gun, how would you carry? Is it against the law to carry for example, one of my dads pistols if I have his permission?
swinokur
Activist Member
IANAL but IIRC a gun can be gifted to you, or loaned or bought via a secondary sale. No FFL involved
Dreamer
Regular Member
Handguns are "regulated firearms" under MD law, and ALL sale/transfers of "regulated firearm" must go through an FFL or be handled by the MSP directly and be subject to MSP "not denying" them. (In MD, the MSP does not "approve" ANYONE buying firearms, you are either "denied" or "not denied", which is, philosophically, linguistically, legally, and morally VERY different from "approved"...)
"Secondary Sales" of "regulated firearms" MUST go through an MSP background check--and for most folks it's easier to have an FFL do it. So technically, you don't HAVE to use an FFL for a secondary sale, but it's about a million times easier, and you'll get a LOT less hassle about it than if you try to geal directly with MSP.
Either way, though, MSP has to get their grubby paws on the process, and you are subject to their "background check" system, a 7-day waiting period, and they will register and record the sale in their "regulated firearms" database.
Reason 3,057 why Maryland sucks...
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swinokur
Activist Member
NICS background checks and the 7 day wait and entry into the MSP database are required no matter the manner of the sale, so why is an FFL less hassle? The OP is not 21, so an FFL is out since Federal law requires you to be 21. So alternatives were offered. In fact, I've done a half dozen secondary sales through MSP. They could not have been more professional. What are you basing your "opinion" on? Have you had a problem with MSP doing a secondary sale? Not my experience at all.
The poster asked how as as an 18 year old he could carry a firearm. It was answered despite your usual "I hate MD" diatribe which added nothing informative to the thread
MD SC ruling on temporary loans attached.
The poster asked how as as an 18 year old he could carry a firearm. It was answered despite your usual "I hate MD" diatribe which added nothing informative to the thread
MD SC ruling on temporary loans attached.
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Sig229
Regular Member
It was?
Where?
MD doesn't allow the "gifting" of a handgun.
I know PA does, but not MD.
swinokur
Activist Member
Did you read the ruling on loans by the MD Supreme Court? Obviously not. Firearms can legally be gifted through MSP, but he has to be 21. That's why the loan is legal, No transfer is needed.. And you are wrong, gifting is legal but you must be 21.
I believe it was answered. You chose not to agree. OK.
From MD State Firearms FAQ
http://www.mdgunsafety.com/mspfaq.htm
I believe it was answered. You chose not to agree. OK.
From MD State Firearms FAQ
http://www.mdgunsafety.com/mspfaq.htm
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Sig229
Regular Member
I appreciate the cite.
However, is that really "gifting" or is it transferring the pistol?
If you need an application and a waiting period to give a firearm to a son/daughter, it doesnt seem like much a difference than selling one via the MD State Police.
But hey, the MD SP says that their process is "gifting" so I guess that makes it so.
Granted, IANAL and I may be biased against the insanity of MD gun law, but to me "gifting" a firearm means you put it in a box, and hand it to the person without the State Police getting involved.
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KYGlockster
Activist Member
I'm so glad I live in Ky. Here is an example of my last purchase:
Seller said, "Hey man, I have a Kel-Tec Sub2000 in 9mm if you are interested."
I said, "You have it with you?"
"Yes, it is in my truck. Walk outside with me and you can see it." We walk out of the residence we were at and stand by his truck. He hands me the firearm to check out.
"It looks good. I have the .40 S&W, but not the 9mm. What are you asking for it?"
"I'll take $100 bucks for it."
I reach in my pocket, get a $100 bucks from my wallet and hand it to him, with the Kel-Tec still in my hand. "Thanks man, I couldn't pass that deal up for nothing!"
Move out of these oppressive states into a free state people if at all possible! Tell them with your Tax dollars that you don't approve of their unconstitutional ways, and that you enjoy your freedom.
Seller said, "Hey man, I have a Kel-Tec Sub2000 in 9mm if you are interested."
I said, "You have it with you?"
"Yes, it is in my truck. Walk outside with me and you can see it." We walk out of the residence we were at and stand by his truck. He hands me the firearm to check out.
"It looks good. I have the .40 S&W, but not the 9mm. What are you asking for it?"
"I'll take $100 bucks for it."
I reach in my pocket, get a $100 bucks from my wallet and hand it to him, with the Kel-Tec still in my hand. "Thanks man, I couldn't pass that deal up for nothing!"
Move out of these oppressive states into a free state people if at all possible! Tell them with your Tax dollars that you don't approve of their unconstitutional ways, and that you enjoy your freedom.
swinokur
Activist Member
The "gift" is technically a transfer with no sale between family members. Your post said MD had no "gifting" law. I simply pointed out and provided the cite that it does. What you describe may be gifiting in PA, or even in other states but not MD.
Do we have screwed up laws? Absolutely.
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swinokur
Activist Member
As expected, MD requested another stay from the 4CA pending their appeal
http://thedailyrecord.com/2012/07/27/gansler-asks-4th-circuit-to-stay-handgun-permit-ruling/
http://thedailyrecord.com/2012/07/27/gansler-asks-4th-circuit-to-stay-handgun-permit-ruling/
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swinokur
Activist Member
First IANAL and you should consult one if you have questions.
That said, according to the MD Supreme Court ruling, if you are legally allowed to possess, then a loan is legal. If you have a permit, then you are legally allowed to possess as I read the law. I am not offering any more than that. You need to make that decision based on your own investigation of the facts.
IANAL.
swinokur
Activist Member
Woolard/SAF has filed reply brief to MD appeal. The brief for the stay request due tomorrow. this will be decided very quickly.
file is too large to upload here.
file is too large to upload here.
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swinokur
Activist Member
here is the appellees (Woolard/SAF) brief opposing the stay
swinokur
Activist Member
All registrations go through MSP for all sales and transfers including private secondary sales. I don't believe the forum rules allow the endorsement of an illegal activity.
Your opinions don't really matter if it's illegal.
Your opinions don't really matter if it's illegal.
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77zach
Regular Member
Wow. The plaintiff's brief is exceptionally well written. It looks like Md will be a shall issue state, at least for awhile. I wonder if the AG will let it go? I'd say no. You have to be an especially arrogant and wicked person to become AG in any state.
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swinokur
Activist Member
If MD loses at the 4th, they won't let it go until it can't go any further. They will petition SCOTUS for cert.
Gansler is arrogant as is all of the MD Govt. Ask Dreamer.
Gansler is arrogant as is all of the MD Govt. Ask Dreamer.
77zach
Regular Member
Do MSP know what kinds/how many guns you have? That's what I associate with the word register.
swinokur
Activist Member
MSP records all sales and transfers in MD. They record your personal info, Serial number, model, caliber of the firearm.
The only exception is if you have legally acquired firearms outside MD and them become a resident. There is no legal requirement to "register" those. Mags greater than 20 rounds are allowed for possession but not purchase in MD. I buy mine in VA. Totally legal.
MSP doesn't call their process registration but of course it's "de facto" registration.
Shotguns and HBAR AR 15's and certain other long guns are exempt. There is a list of this. Google it.
The only exception is if you have legally acquired firearms outside MD and them become a resident. There is no legal requirement to "register" those. Mags greater than 20 rounds are allowed for possession but not purchase in MD. I buy mine in VA. Totally legal.
MSP doesn't call their process registration but of course it's "de facto" registration.
Shotguns and HBAR AR 15's and certain other long guns are exempt. There is a list of this. Google it.
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