K-9 Alert Search Question

[Fallschirjmäger]

Yes, and "name and address," not identification papers. I suspect our correspondents here gloss the difference.

Indeed, I can only think of two states off the top of my head that even mention documents.

 

[hammer6]

Funny, but in all that you didn't provide an answer to the question.

What about which states?
Which states requires its citizens to carry identification?
Name them.

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhc9c9ctULo0q5XfOn

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhc9c9ctULo0q5XfOn

I presume you mean Texas Penal Code Sec. 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY?

§Sec. 38.02
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.

(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

(1) lawfully arrested the person;
(2) lawfully detained the person; or
(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.​

(c) Except as provided by Subsections (d) and (e), an offense under this section is:

(1) a Class C misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or
(2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).​

(d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant was a fugitive from justice at the time of the offense, the offense is:

(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or
(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).​

(e) If conduct that constitutes an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under Section 106.07, Alcoholic Beverage Code, the actor may be prosecuted only under Section 106.07.

[emphasis by poster]

Nope; as you can see Texas doesn't require any documentation be produced, AND one is only required to provide information under circumstances enumerated in sub-section (b)(2) and (3), neither of which were present when Officer Friendly stopped the gentleman.

Care to try again?

 

[OC for ME]

To the IDing tangent, a cop could lie about his RAS and then gig you on not complying with his "request." Missouri has such a IDing requirement. You may be exonerated but the damage is done. Any cop interaction must be view in the worst possible light until the cop proves beyond any doubt that he is not your adversary. Remember, cops are give vast powers to "ruin your day" and walk away completely unscathed by their unlawful conduct. Eliminate QI and Terry v. Ohio!

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

To the IDing tangent, a cop could lie about his RAS and then gig you on not complying with his "request." Missouri has such a IDing requirement.

Missouri does.. or just Kansas City?


Missouri (Kansas City Only) Mo. Rev. Stat. §84.710(2)

§ 84.710.
1. The members of the police force appointed in pursuance hereof are hereby declared to be officers of the state of Missouri and of the city for which such commissioners are appointed.

2. They shall have power within the city or on public property of the city beyond the corporate limits thereof to arrest, on view, any person they see violating or whom they have reason to suspect of having violated any law of the state or ordinance of the city. They shall have power to arrest and hold, without warrant, for a period of time not exceeding twenty-four hours, persons found within the city or on public property of the city beyond the corporate limits thereof charged with having committed felonies in other states, and who are reported to be fugitives from justice. They shall also have the power to stop any person abroad whenever there is reasonable ground to suspect that he is committing, has committed or is about to commit a crime and demand of him his name, address, business abroad and whither he is going. When stopping or detaining a suspect, they may search him for a dangerous weapon whenever they have reasonable ground to believe they are in danger from the possession of such dangerous weapon by the suspect. No unreasonable force shall be used in detaining or arresting any person, but such force as may be necessary may be used when there is no other apparent means of making an arrest or preventing an escape and only after the peace officer has made every reasonable effort to advise the person that he is the peace officer engaged in making arrest.

3. Any person who has been arrested without a warrant may be released, without being taken before a judge, by the officer in charge of the police station whenever the officer is satisfied that there is no ground for making complaint against him, or when the person was arrested for a misdemeanor and will sign a satisfactory agreement to appear in court at the time designated.
(RSMo 1939 § 7674, A.L. 1943 p. 727 § 7673, A.L. 1978 H.B. 1634) Prior revisions: 1929 § 7519; 1919 § 8930; 1909 § 9782

 

[countryclubjoe]

To the IDing tangent, a cop could lie about his RAS and then gig you on not complying with his "request." Missouri has such a IDing requirement. You may be exonerated but the damage is done. Any cop interaction must be view in the worst possible light until the cop proves beyond any doubt that he is not your adversary. Remember, cops are give vast powers to "ruin your day" and walk away completely unscathed by their unlawful conduct. Eliminate QI and Terry v. Ohio!

The video camera/recorder eliminates most injustices.. Criminal cops hate the video recorder. They hate being recorded.

My .02
CCJ

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

To the IDing tangent, a cop could lie about his RAS and then gig you on not complying with his "request." Missouri has such a IDing requirement.

In Missouri the answer is obvious...
"Officer Friendly, My name is John Doe, I live at 742 Evergreen Terrace, I'm out here walking for exercise. Now, I'm all about cooperation and and allaying any suspicions of illegal conduct; if you'll just tell me what you suspect me of I'll clear up any misconceptions. but, I'm just not going to participate in an open ended fishing expedition.

Am I under arrest? No? Well, you have a nice day, don't play in traffic and make sure to wear your vest every day. Toodles!"

 

[Grapeshot]

The video camera/recorder eliminates most injustices.. Criminal cops hate the video recorder. They hate being recorded.

My .02
CCJ

Video recorders can work against you too. It is a lot like entering into a consentual conversation things taken out of context can be distorted, made to seem contrary to what you might want. Don't volunteer anything.

Suggest that interested parties sign up to receive http://www.forcescience.org/

 

[OC for ME]

Fallschirmjäger, your statute cite is correct. Not to be confrontational, MO has permitted political subdivisions to enact "stop and ID" laws via court president. The citizen is likely unaware, as is their lawyer, of the specific language of RSMo, 544.180 which clearly states that MO does not recognize a detention (in my opinion). It is unfortunate that I must split hairs between local ordinances and state statute. A expensive endeavor to be sure. Given the language of the RSMo, I choose to force the cop to conduct a custodial arrest because I will not open my big mouth. Missouri may be the exception where a definition of arrest is defined in the state statute. I encourage any liberty centric citizen to petition their state reps to enact a similar statute.

Force the cop to take the next step down the road of lawlessness...if your state laws permit him to do so.