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Lost my faith in Serpa CQC

petrophase

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
300
Location
Rapid City, South Dakota, USA
My significant other and I have been working on refining our retention skills. I usually carry my p229 in a Galco Fletch (leather OWB with a retention strap), though in warm weather I often carry a Serpa CQC.

We decided to test how well each holster aided retention under a variety of standing situations, i.e. a variety of approach angles and simulated levels of SA. Furthermore, we also simulated a grab by a person unfamiliar with the operation of the CQC and by a person familiar with the holster.

We found that with high SA, regardless of the holster or the approach angle, we were well able to retain the pistol (duh).

With moderate to low SA, the leather holster was more effective, especially when the grabber "knew" to go right for the release button on the CQC. Our normal response, to clamp down on the gun and the grabbers hand and to turn sharply away, seemed to actually help the gun slide right out of the CQC, while the leather-metal friction of the Fletch aided greatly in retaining the pistol during this maneuver.

I don't know if it's possible for a couple of amateurs to perform a more qualitative assessment, so YMMV :)

At any rate, my rock-solid confidence in the CQC has been greatly reduced. Regardless of the holster-pistol combination, it is extremely important to practice retention and learn the system's strengths and weaknesses.
 

Super Trucker

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
271
Location
Wayne County, MI.
Look into the Safariland ALS holsters if you like the poly holsters. The 6377 is at the same price point as the serpa, they make other models but they cost more.
 

zack991

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,541
Location
Ohio, USA
I trust my Serpa and I am pleased with it and I have had no problems with them.
 
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JDriver1.8t

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
678
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
You need to practice clamping down on the pistol and the grabber's hand, and pushing towards them, not away.

If you pull away, you are only helping them in their task.


Also, try this one:
When the holster is on your hip, grab the muzzle and pull out.
This should put the grip into your waist/ rib cage. The pistol can't come out of the holster then.
 

petrophase

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
300
Location
Rapid City, South Dakota, USA
You need to practice clamping down on the pistol and the grabber's hand, and pushing towards them, not away.

If you pull away, you are only helping them in their task.

That essentially is the drill we were practicing. It's a little confusing when described with words, would be a little easier with a pic or vid.


Also, try this one:
When the holster is on your hip, grab the muzzle and pull out.
This should put the grip into your waist/ rib cage. The pistol can't come out of the holster then.

Thanks, that is a good one.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
No holster made is, one its own merits, going to provide total security and be functionally usable.

Yes situational awareness is a major key and yes you can learn/be taught defensive maneuvers to reduce that concern - some will leave the attacker with broken bones, torn ligaments, or worse.

The concern about potential gun snatches is IMO greatly exaggerated by some. The primary benefit to to a retention holster in the circumstances in which most of us find ourselves in normal daily life is more likely that of freedom of movement without jostling the handgun loose. If you look for it to do more, you may be expecting too much.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,362
Location
Grennsboro NC
Interesting side note:

The people who DO have their guns grabbed most frequently are LEOs. They are trained, and REQUIRED to insert themselves into dangerous, confrontational situations with desperate criminals, and THAT is when they get their guns grabbed, and when they DO have to use lethal force in such situations, they know that 9 times out of 10 they will not have to face any sort of scrutiny or legal liability for their actions.

Law Abiding citizens, however, are trained (and in fact REQUIRED BY LAW) to do everything in their power to AVOID such situations. And they know that even when they are in the right and FULLY justified in their actions of self-defense, they will still be subjected to INTENSE legal scrutiny, probable arrest, and almost certain confiscation of their lawfully owned (and used) defensive firearm. (luckily, most BGs don't know this...)

Is it any wonder that more police in the US in one week have their guns grabbed than ALL law-abiding OCers in the US in the last 2 decades?...

This isn't rocket science folks...
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Dreamer

Is it any wonder that more police in the US in one week have their guns grabbed than ALL law-abiding OCers in the US in the last 2 decades?...
This isn't rocket science folks...


Not sure if you have a citation for this, but it sounds accurate to me.

In this case the "evidence" is the total lack of documented cites to the contrary. Those opposed to OC would beat us about the head and shoulders with such if it existed.

Been sittin' n' waitin' for it to happen though as then I can show why the statistical probability of it reoccurring is about .00001%
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
Interesting side note:

The people who DO have their guns grabbed most frequently are LEOs. They are trained, and REQUIRED to insert themselves into dangerous, confrontational situations with desperate criminals, and THAT is when they get their guns grabbed, and when they DO have to use lethal force in such situations, they know that 9 times out of 10 they will not have to face any sort of scrutiny or legal liability for their actions.

Law Abiding citizens, however, are trained (and in fact REQUIRED BY LAW) to do everything in their power to AVOID such situations. And they know that even when they are in the right and FULLY justified in their actions of self-defense, they will still be subjected to INTENSE legal scrutiny, probable arrest, and almost certain confiscation of their lawfully owned (and used) defensive firearm. (luckily, most BGs don't know this...)

Is it any wonder that more police in the US in one week have their guns grabbed than ALL law-abiding OCers in the US in the last 2 decades?...

This isn't rocket science folks...


Supports the contention that LEOs are subjected to such attempts, but still leaves the claim from others that the citizen OCing is equally exposing him/herself to high risk.
 

CenTex

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
276
Location
,,
Supports the contention that LEOs are subjected to such attempts, but still leaves the claim from others that the citizen OCing is equally exposing him/herself to high risk.

The major difference being that OCers are going about their "normal" daily lives and not playing cops by confronting people who are breaking the law.

By the role that LEOs play, they are confrontational. The problem that the OCer has is the confrontational LEO that has no intention of playing nice.
 

.45acp

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
333
Location
Salt Lake City, UT
Petrophase,

I tend to agree with you regarding the Serpa, I bought one several years ago just to see what to hoppla was about. Carried it for one day and tossed it into the holster storage drawer.

I personally don't think much of them.

Steve
 

Gray Rider

New member
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
80
Location
, ,
J-Frame Serpa problems

I recently bought a Serpa CQC for my J-frame S&W 36 based on reading high praises on several forums. I was hoping for an improvement over my Fobus

1. The Serpa fit to gun is sloppy loose.

2. It sits way too far out to conceal under anything less than a winter coat.

3. The paddle is difficult to attach to the pants and impossible to remove without dropping trou.
 

JDriver1.8t

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
678
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
I recently bought a Serpa CQC for my J-frame S&W 36 based on reading high praises on several forums. I was hoping for an improvement over my Fobus

1. The Serpa fit to gun is sloppy loose.

2. It sits way too far out to conceal under anything less than a winter coat.

3. The paddle is difficult to attach to the pants and impossible to remove without dropping trou.

1. This can be adjusted a little bit with the retention screw. Though, some minimal rocking ability is normal.
2. True, that is why it is normally only spoken of as an OC holster.
3. I slides easily onto pants, and can be taken off in a mater of seconds, as long as you have the proper technique which may require some practice.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,362
Location
Grennsboro NC
And the technique to remove the paddle from the pants is...?

I have found, as a die-hard paddle-holster proponent, that the Serpa Paddle, when properly adjusted, is very difficult to remove from one's belt with brute force...

The way I remove mine is to rock/rotate it backwards until the top of the holster is at about 10:00 while pulling outward on the holster. This disengages the hook on the outside of the paddle. Then I lift up and forward, rotating it a little more, and this allows it to come clear of my pants and belt smoothly.

This process is difficult to describe with words. Maybe I need to do a series of photos with explanations, or a YouTube video with voice-overs to explain it better...

Since I am required to disarm frequently in my daily business (due to the bizarre restrictions we have here in NC), I find that paddle holster--even one with tricky and tenacious belt retention like the Serpa, makes it a LOT easier and quicker (and less conspicuous) to disarm in my vehicle when I have to go somewhere that carry is not allowed...
 
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JDriver1.8t

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
678
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
My method for removing the serpa paddle:
grab face of holster and pull out to disengage outer belt hooks with right hand.
use pointer finger of left hand to disengage inner pant seam hook
pull upward with a slight rotation.

Again, like Dreamer, it may take pictures or video to understand, or you can just try it out and see if you can figure out a method that is similar that works for you.
 
M

mattwestm

Guest
I pretty much have to loosen my belt and pants to remove my serpa.
 
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