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Louisville Office of Management and Budget

poetdante

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Jan 30, 2014
Messages
449
Location
Louisville, KY
It appears the folks at Metro decided to sneakily ban firearms in their Office Of Management and Budget Accounts. This group of offices is located at 609 W Jefferson St and while I can find no prohibitory signage on the entrance I did come across a rent-a-cop at a metal detector station with the below signage. I asked him to confirm that this was a government building and not a court facility. He said it was but only for "official business" and thus they could prohibit weapons. I corrected him on that but told him not to worry about it, I would find the correct person and it would be resolved. I would have gone and spoken to the building manager, or even gone towards City Hall in the adjacent, connected to the adjecnt building. My business was with the Accounts Reveivable Division, which is the entrance just prior to the checkpoint so I was not able to test the prohibition on firearms. I will be doing some research at home and contacting the corrext person later as all this was during my lunch break. Yes the sign says concealed firearms but the guard said all firearms and the sign does say Ammunition so it violates KRS

IMG_0106.jpg
 
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gutshot II

Regular Member
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Jul 1, 2017
Messages
768
Location
Central Ky.
It appears the folks at Metro decided to sneakily ban firearms in their Office Of Management and Budget Accounts. This group of offices is located at 609 W Jefferson St and while I can find no prohibitory signage on the entrance I did come across a rent-a-cop at a metal detector station with the below signage. I asked him to confirm that this was a government building and not a court facility. He said it was but only for "official business" and thus they could prohibit weapons. I corrected him on that but told him not to worry about it, I would find the correct person and it would be resolved. I would have gone and spoken to the building manager, or even gone towards City Hall in the adjacent, connected to the adjecnt building. My business was with the Accounts Reveivable Division, which is the entrance just prior to the checkpoint so I was not able to test the prohibition on firearms. I will be doing some research at home and contacting the corrext person later as all this was during my lunch break. Yes the sign says concealed firearms but the guard said all firearms and the sign does say Ammunition so it violates KRS

View attachment 13339

Good catch, especially the part about ammunition! Let us know how this works out. I am really interest in the results.
 

poetdante

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Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Messages
449
Location
Louisville, KY
Not quite as easy to find the info as you would think! I had to email 4 places and will be waiting to hear back. I have contacted Office of Management and Budget (611 W Jefferson St. but they use the 609 entrance), the Internal Audit Office (609 W. Jefferson St), Open Records (from the date the preemption statute 65.870 was effective), and a general louisvilleky.gov inquiry regarding who is in the building, who is in charge of it, who is responsible for hiring the rent-a-cop, and who would have put the sign up (open record request only as I don't want to tip any of the others off just yet). Let's see if any of them bite.
 

poetdante

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Jan 30, 2014
Messages
449
Location
Louisville, KY
So I found out some information on the building

The building located at 609-611 W. Jefferson Street (City Hall Annex) includes the main offices for Office of Internal Audit and the Office of Management and Budget. A report also shows individuals working in the building that are from other departments such as Public Works and Fleet and Facilities employees; with the main offices of those departments in the 444 South 5th Street building.

*The Office of Internal Audit generally lists its address as 609 W. Jefferson St, while the Office of Management and Budget generally lists its address as 611 W. Jefferson St; however, it is essentially the same building with the address listed on the door as 609-611.

Generally, the Office of Fleet and Facilities oversee policies regarding all Louisville Metro Government buildings.
I also submitted a 311 request and they straight up asked me why I was asking who was in charge of the building and security guards, from the notion that I had a specific complaint with a guard. I explained the situation, they replied back that I should contact the sherriff's office about prohibited items, I countered with some KRS statutes and explained the list was fine except for prohibiting ammunition. When I explained that I simply wanted to find the right person to let them know they said they'd forward it to the right person. I will check in a few weeks to see if it has changed.
 

poetdante

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Jan 30, 2014
Messages
449
Location
Louisville, KY
I didn't see the prohibition of that on the sign. Hence I wanted to find the person who put it there or told it to be put there. I will make sure they understand the law as it seems they may be a little confused about it the nuances of it.
 

gutshot II

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Jul 1, 2017
Messages
768
Location
Central Ky.
I didn't see the prohibition of that on the sign. Hence I wanted to find the person who put it there or told it to be put there. I will make sure they understand the law as it seems they may be a little confused about it the nuances of it.
That confusion is shared by a large number of people. Many of them are employeed by Louisville Metro govenment. Maybe it is a requirement of employment.
 

poetdante

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Jan 30, 2014
Messages
449
Location
Louisville, KY
I am surprised by the quick turnaround time with the right people at getting the message and responding.

Mark Zoeller, Assistant Director, Facilities and Project Management sent me this message a little before 8am today.

I received your enquiry to Metro Call, and your ORR, regarding signage at the entrance to City Hall. Because it deals with specific ordinance language, your question has been turned over to the County Attorneys. They are reviewing the language and changes will be made as deemed appropriate.
 

color of law

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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I am surprised by the quick turnaround time with the right people at getting the message and responding.

Mark Zoeller, Assistant Director, Facilities and Project Management sent me this message a little before 8am today.
I received your enquiry to Metro Call, and your ORR, regarding signage at the entrance to City Hall. Because it deals with specific ordinance language, your question has been turned over to the County Attorneys. They are reviewing the language and changes will be made as deemed appropriate.
Based on that answer they are not going to respond to you. And what does the county attorney have to do with signage on a city building? Are they sharing offices?
 

gutshot II

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Joined
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Messages
768
Location
Central Ky.
Based on that answer they are not going to respond to you. And what does the county attorney have to do with signage on a city building? Are they sharing offices?
Louisville Metro is a consolidated city/county government. There is no "city" government, there are no "city" buildings. Since the "county" attorney is a constitutionally mandated, elected office, that is the legal representative for Metro government, dispite there being no "county" government. The "County" Clerk, the "County" Attorney and the "County" Sheriff are the only remnants of the old Jefferson County government. This is the appropriate place to send questions on legal issues involving Louisville Metro. The Jefferson County Attorney's office has properly decided similar issues several times in the past and I am confidant that they will resolve this correctly again in this instance. Where would you suggest this dispute be solved? What government agency would you suggest should be investigating this complaint? IMHO, Poetdante has done exactly what needed to be done and I expect a positive outcome because of his actions.
 
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color of law

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Louisville Metro is a consolidated city/county government. There is no "city" government, there are no "city" buildings. Since the "county" attorney is a constitutionally mandated, elected office, that is the legal representative for Metro government, dispite there being no "county" government. The "County" Clerk, the "County" Attorney and the "County" Sheriff are the only remnants of the old Jefferson County government. This is the appropriate place to send questions on legal issues involving Louisville Metro. The Jefferson County Attorney's office has properly decided similar issues several times in the past and I am confidant that they will resolve this correctly again in this instance. Where would you suggest this dispute be solved? What government agency would you suggest should be investigating this complaint? IMHO, Poetdante has done exactly what needed to be done and I expect a positive outcome because of his actions.
Thank you for clearing up how KY runs their local a d county government operates. In Ohio that would never happen. In Ohio city and county governments are at each others throats all the time.
 

gutshot II

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768
Location
Central Ky.
Thank you for clearing up how KY runs their local a d county government operates. In Ohio that would never happen. In Ohio city and county governments are at each others throats all the time.
You can't use this example as the blueprint for city/county government organization in Ky. Only a "city of the first class" can form a "consolidated city/county government" with their county partner and Louisville is the only one of those in the state. No other city/county government is run like this. Merger occured in 2003. Before then, the city and Jefferson County had more traditional, separate city and county governments. All other city and county governments are still the traditional style, with the exception of Lexington which has an "urban county government'" within Fayette County.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Louisville,_Kentucky
 
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poetdante

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Messages
449
Location
Louisville, KY
Here is the response from the Open Recorda folks


Hello,



You requested the following: “In the building located at 609 W Jefferson Street, I believe the Office of Management and Budget is located here. At the Jefferson St entrance there is a security checkpoint with the below image of a sign prohibiting ammunition. The guard there also said all firearms were prohibited and that the building was for "official use" only, as in you had to have an appointment to meet someone there, and that employees and everyone was prohibited from firearm possession. I wish to know where this policy is located and who authorized the sign to be put up, and who manages the building with decisions pertaining to policies about prohibited items.”

LMCO Chapter 41 is the ordinance that governs weapons in Metro Government buildings. A copy of this Chapter is attached. The sign you reference in your request has been removed from 609 W. Jefferson Street, and we are evaluating what new signs will be put in place.





Robin Berry

Louisville Metro Government

Office of Records Compliance
Here is the link to Louisville Ordinances. Chapter 41 is inder Title 3, Administration
 

color of law

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§ 41.04 SIGNS TO BE POSTED.
The Department of Public Properties shall post signs at the entrance to all restricted buildings and areas covered by this chapter which shall read as follows:
“CONCEALED DEADLY WEAPONS
PROHIBITED ON THESE PREMISES
BY METRO GOVERNMENT ORDINANCE”
(1994 Jeff. Code, § 41.04) (Jeff. Ord. 24-1996, adopted and effective 8-20-1996; Lou. Metro Am. Ord. No. 129-2004, approved 9-15-2004)
Not a word about open carry.
 
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