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Madison Open Carry Arrest. Paging Travis Yates

hugh jarmis

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The fight to change behavior is via civil action - hopefully, the Defendant in this case is getting adequate counsel to approach the case wholistically with a follow on civil action in mind.
Upon communicating with trustwrothy unbiased legal counsel this morning, I rescind my previous comments about not getting an attorney for the muni case.

If a civil case is going to be filed, unless Travis has a huge amount of time and effort to devote to research and preparation, I think he will be best positioned for a civil case by obtaining adequate counsel now.

If he doesn't truly intend to file a civil case, I believe the facts of the the case and the law is on his side 100% and costly legal counsel might be a waste of money. BUT its not my record on the line and everyone must do what they must to sleep well at night.

I've got money, but only if he goes after it... I'll donate to the cause of kicking some JBT ass, but not just giving money away for nothing...

Ditto. If all people are going to do is fight far enough to get out from under the criminal charge, I cannot continue to throw money at one after another. Its pointless.

But if they are willing to commit to filing a civil suit, we have something to talk about.

IN addition, per the legal counsel i communicated with this morning, upon filing of a civil case, the cost of legal counsel for the defense of criminal charges and civil action are recoverable if one should be succesful in said civil action.

As such, I think monies "invested" so to speak by myself and others in the defense should be returned upon reward of damages/legal fees in a civil action.

Of course if enough people were willing to donate and the cost/per person was very low, I'd just as soon not go through the mechanics of returning $10 each to 500 people and rather see any money recovered donated to a pro-OC cause (radio campaign) or the like. On the otherhand,if we don't have 500 people willing to donate $10 each and its goign to take large donations, if I'm going to drop another $500 or $1000 or more (which I'll only do if Travis or whomever commits to civil action) then I would expect that "investment" returned or a portion pursuant to what is recovered in a successful civil case.
 

jrm

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I've used the model Hugh describes (donations collected, litigation financed, donations returned on a pro rata basis out of recovery) many times. It works well.
 

mja1000

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Question...the police report says that Travis was driven home by the LEO to put his gun away. At the time Travis was transported home in the squad, who had possession of the firearm? Was he disarmed by the LEO prior to getting into the vehicle? If not, was it unloaded, encased, and out of reach? I'm sure Travis was not carrying a case with him on his walk....
 

Malum Prohibitum

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hugh jarmis wrote:
Hopefully Travis will stop in so we can support him.

I take it this has not happened? We are all just chattering amongst ourselves, even presuming to dispense legal advice to some stranger we read about in the paper?

You all noticed he asked the reporter not to show his face, right?
 

AaronS

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bigus wrote:
Some thoughts on this situation: note that none of these thoughts should be construed as legal advice.

Mr. Yates should definitely retain a criminal defense attorney first and deal with that aspect of the situation first. Without a final resolution of the criminal charges, a civil case would be preliminary. Something to keep in mind is the procedure in a case like this in Wisconsin. Regardless of the outcome at the municipal level, the losing side will have the right to appeal the decision to Dane County for de novo proceedings; in other words, the losing side can request that the whole thing start over in County court with no deference to the municipal ruling.

Mr. Yates, feel free to contact me via e-mail or through this board.

You know, for a first post, that was good. Welcome.

I still say that Madison would be hard pressed to find any DA that would take this case. My guess it that it stays in the local court, and is dropped. One can only guess at this time...
 

AaronS

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hugh jarmis wrote:
The fight to change behavior is via civil action - hopefully, the Defendant in this case is getting adequate counsel to approach the case wholistically with a follow on civil action in mind.
Upon communicating with trustwrothy unbiased legal counsel this morning, I rescind my previous comments about not getting an attorney for the muni case.

If a civil case is going to be filed, unless Travis has a huge amount of time and effort to devote to research and preparation, I think he will be best positioned for a civil case by obtaining adequate counsel now.

If he doesn't truly intend to file a civil case, I believe the facts of the the case and the law is on his side 100% and costly legal counsel might be a waste of money. BUT its not my record on the line and everyone must do what they must to sleep well at night.

I've got money, but only if he goes after it... I'll donate to the cause of kicking some JBT ass, but not just giving money away for nothing...

Ditto. If all people are going to do is fight far enough to get out from under the criminal charge, I cannot continue to throw money at one after another. Its pointless.

But if they are willing to commit to filing a civil suit, we have something to talk about.

IN addition, per the legal counsel i communicated with this morning, upon filing of a civil case, the cost of legal counsel for the defense of criminal charges and civil action are recoverable if one should be succesful in said civil action.

As such, I think monies "invested" so to speak by myself and others in the defense should be returned upon reward of damages/legal fees in a civil action.

Of course if enough people were willing to donate and the cost/per person was very low, I'd just as soon not go through the mechanics of returning $10 each to 500 people and rather see any money recovered donated to a pro-OC cause (radio campaign) or the like. On the otherhand,if we don't have 500 people willing to donate $10 each and its goign to take large donations, if I'm going to drop another $500 or $1000 or more (which I'll only do if Travis or whomever commits to civil action) then I would expect that "investment" returned or a portion pursuant to what is recovered in a successful civil case.
Great idea, how do we start a real fund? I have no clue at all. I think I might call my bank in the morning.
 

jrm

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hugh jarmis wrote:
Great idea, how do we start a real fund?
If travis retains counsel I'm certain they could facilitate.
Exactly. After he has a lawyer, donations can be made to the lawyer's trust account, earmarked for a stated purpose.
 

Doug Huffman

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I am in for small money to Travis Yates personally or to his attorney of record's escrow account.

I note that the same party that queered my offer in Krause's behalf is sniffing around the edges of Yates' case. If AAFCI/German gets directly involved in the financial support then my money is out. YMMV

He/they have queered the County Petition effort too.
 

Constitutionalist

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The disturbing the peace issue will go away. Thats cut and dried.

The real issue is the violation of your constitutional rights. As my untrained legal eye sees it you have the violation of your second amendment rights, as well as your 4th amendment right to be free from illegal search and seizure. They seized Travis when they detained him, and seized his property when the officer confiscated his gun. (Assuming they took the gun from him when they put him in squad car.) Lastly, the act of "driving him home so he could put the gun away" was another incident of illegal seizure.

Now the problem, these are all federal violation and the venue for the suit is federal court. Unlike personal injury cases a lawyer will not take this case on contingency. They are going to want big money upfront. Contact the NRA, 2nd amendment foundation, and any other pro-gun organization you can think of and see if they will help you out.

Goo luck
 

jrm

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Constitutionalist wrote:
Unlike personal injury cases a lawyer will not take this case on contingency. They are going to want big money upfront.
I wouldn't be too sure about that.
 

AaronS

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N6ATF wrote:
Malum Prohibitum wrote:
hugh jarmis wrote:
Hopefully Travis will stop in so we can support him.

I take it this has not happened?

If you had read past the 5th post in the thread, you would have seen that it has.

Travis=WI_Patriot
Thats what I thought from that post as well, but I just got a return PM from WI_Patriot, and it is not him... I am not sure he is a user, yet...
 

N6ATF

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WI_Patriot wrote:
Hey, it's me, Travis. I talked to a couple lawyers. So far the cheapest guy will litigate it for $3500. I don't have that kind of money. I don't know if I can request money for a defense fund. I can ask the lawyer about it. If I can accept donations, I would appreciate help.

It looks like most of the facts are already known. Looks like a simple, clear case to me. I wasn't taken to jail. It was a municipal violation.

Is there a planned march, picnic, open carry event planned? I can't advocate anything.

WI_Patriot wrote:
Court date is 9-9-2009 at 8:30 am.

WTF
 

Interceptor_Knight

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AaronS wrote:
Thats what I thought from that post as well, but I just got a return PM from WI_Patriot, and it is not him... I am not sure he is a user, yet...
N6ATF wrote:
WI_Patriot wrote:
Hey, it's me, Travis. I talked to a couple lawyers. So far the cheapest guy will litigate it for $3500. I don't have that kind of money. I don't know if I can request money for a defense fund. I can ask the lawyer about it. If I can accept donations, I would appreciate help.

It looks like most of the facts are already known. Looks like a simple, clear case to me. I wasn't taken to jail. It was a municipal violation.

Is there a planned march, picnic, open carry event planned? I can't advocate anything.

WI_Patriot wrote:
Court date is 9-9-2009 at 8:30 am.

WTF

There are 2 different users. WI_Patriot is Travis with 3 posts.

WI Patriot is someone else with alot more posts. One user name has the underscore between the WI and Patriot and one user name does not.
 

AaronS

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fepowered wrote:
AaronS wrote:
Thats what I thought from that post as well, but I just got a return PM from WI_Patriot, and it is not him... I am not sure he is a user, yet...
N6ATF wrote:
WI_Patriot wrote:
Hey, it's me, Travis. I talked to a couple lawyers. So far the cheapest guy will litigate it for $3500. I don't have that kind of money. I don't know if I can request money for a defense fund. I can ask the lawyer about it. If I can accept donations, I would appreciate help.

It looks like most of the facts are already known. Looks like a simple, clear case to me. I wasn't taken to jail. It was a municipal violation.

Is there a planned march, picnic, open carry event planned? I can't advocate anything.

WI_Patriot wrote:
Court date is 9-9-2009 at 8:30 am.

WTF

There are 2 different users. WI_Patriot is Travis with 3 posts.

WI Patriot is someone else with alot more posts. One user name has the underscore between the WI and Patriot and one user name does not.
Ahhh, I see now. I sent my PM to the wrong one. It's okay, Tom is a nice guy...
 

Doug Huffman

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Tree_Planter

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The Wisconsin Patriots do not deserve the unwarranted criticism; no group has recently accomplished more in defending and promoting pre-existing rights.(1)

It is disingenuous to minimize the efforts of any individual or group that helped to defend our rights because of petty differences. Many people stepped forward, from the first person not to be intimidated to those who continue to attend city council meetings. Every individual with a positive contribution is important, and an organized group of individuals is no different.(2)

It is further unproductive to attack a successful form of education to promote a personal preference. Some people may benefit more from personal research, others from taking a class, reading a book, or from a combination of approaches. If someone suggests one approach it should not prompt another person to promote their preference and belligerently exclude all others.(3)

I faced potential felony and later municipal charges for lawfully carrying a holstered firearm while planting a tree on private property I owned. Mr. Yates faces significantly lessened conditions for walking down State Street, while most other cities respect Attorney General Van Hollen's memorandum, and longstanding and well-understood rights.

Individual rights, our rights, should not be taken lightly. People have fought and died to protect our rights and continue to do so. If your intent is to make a positive contribution, please do so. If that is not your intent, perhaps you should consider moving to a country that does not afford the freedoms our Constitution guarantees.

Brad Krause



(1) "Nothing will change until we have a new governor" was expressed by other groups and echoed on this website until the first "open carry" case was won.

(2) The first "open carry" case was won because of unified support for inherent rights; subtracting any of the support may have resulted in a loss. It is not my intention to elevate the importance of any individual or group over another.

(3) This is seen in many topics on this website.
 
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