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memorial day 2019

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
11,878
Location
White Oak Plantation
The burden is mine to interpret the words used by a citizen when in conversation with them.
disdain | dis·dain | \ dis-ˈdān\ Definition of disdain

(Entry 1 of 2) : noun : a feeling of contempt for someone or something regarded as unworthy or inferior : scorn

(Entry 2 of 2) : transitive verb
1 : to look on with scorn disdained him as a coward
2 : to refuse or abstain from because of a feeling of contempt or scorn disdained to answer their questions
3 : to treat as beneath one's notice or dignity
disgust | dis·gust | \ di-ˈskəst, dis-ˈgəst also diz-\

(Entry 1 of 2) : noun : marked aversion aroused by something highly distasteful : repugnance wrinkled her nose in disgust his disgust at the way the media has been covering the story

(Entry 2 of 2) : transitive verb
1 : to provoke to loathing, repugnance, or aversion : be offensive to The idea of eating raw meat disgusts him.
2 : to cause (one) to lose an interest or intention
Post #3 of this thread I have interpreted.
... but i see all other wars after WW2 is a joke and those wars are dishonorable wars without a good cause. - FreedomVA
FreedomVA's words "speak" for themselves. FreedomVA has exercised his right to express them, in a peaceable manner, and that is all anyone should expect from any citizen.
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,814
Location
Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
This thread is emblematic of why I so seldom come to OCDO any more.

A tribute.

Followed by (deliberate?) misreading, political one-upmanship, moral superiority, and "I must have my say whether or not it's worth saying."

Solus - thank you for your family's contribution.

We will be commemorating with my stepfather, who lost a brother over France. I thank the gods the rest of our family who served made it back with no more than a Bronze Star.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,607
Location
Granite State of Mind
Compulsory enlistment? Nope. They made you believe it was compulsory. What was compulsory was for you to appear for a physical. The medical physical determined your class. If you passed they gave you a report date. When you appeared they asked you to step forward and raise your right hand. You honored their request, surprise, you volunteered.
If it was mandatory, you could not go AWOL. The thirteenth amendment abolished involuntary servitude.
The thirteenth allows for imprisonment, which is what happened to those who refused to serve. Or in some cases, those who refused to register for conscription.
 

Doug_Nightmare

Active member
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
186
I deal frequently with questions of the practical display of ‘honor’. Is there honor is hanging the American Flag? No, there is only honor in the inconvenience of raising it at dawn and lowering it in foul weather and sunset. Is there honor in having an ancestor in Hallowed Ground? Nope, the honor is in tending the site, weeding, mowing, weeping, posting Memorial Day Colors. The honor is in muddy knees and aching back.

They also serve who only stand and wait, and the honor is in the inconvenience.

Is there honor in freely expressing one’s First Amendment Right? How inconvenient is that?

There has been a wonderful critical discussion of Robert Anson Heinlein’s book Starship Troopers and the cartoonish movie of the same title, but which had great insights. A YT vlog by Sargon of Akkad led it off.
 

Doug_Nightmare

Active member
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
186
Honor


Remember, “Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor gloom of night stays these courageous couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds." (Herodotus c. 484 BC – c. 425 BC paraphrased at NYC Central Post Office). Herodotus, ‘First Historian’, was speaking of the Persian couriers in the Greek-Persian War.
 
Last edited:

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
So tell me what are we supposed to celebrate about?
Memorial Day commemorates the men and women who died while in the military service of their country, particularly those who died in battle or as a result of wounds sustained in battle. In other words, the purpose of Memorial Day is to memorialize the veterans who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country. We spend time remembering those who lost their lives and could not come home, reflecting on their service and why we have the luxury and freedom that we enjoy today. We might consider how we can support and safeguard their grieving families and loved ones who are left behind.

FreedomVA, while I most certainly respect your rights to both formulate and communicate your opinion, I cannot respect the opinions you have expressed herein one bit. They indicate a gross level of ignorance and misunderstanding of nature and role of our military as well as a flagrant misunderstanding of our mission and values which appear to be beyond your current level of education and experience.

In your numerous diatribes against the U.S. Military, you spouted utter junk, things which I know from long-term personal experience and association with the military to be utterly false. As for my association, I was a Navy brat. My father was in for 31 years, 25 years after I was born until he retired. Perhaps you don't understand what it means to grow up in the military, but from the youngest age I attended numerous changes of command, somber memorials, and social and family gatherings. Roughly half the families on my street were in the military, so roughly half my friends had a parent who was in the military. Of the five best friends I had growing up in four different locations from age 3 to 18, four joined the military. On occasion I would accompany my father to work and met and conversed with many of his co-workers. He was in Naval aviation throughout most of his career from 1957 through his retirement in 1988.

I remember quite well those of our friends, family and neighbors who died for their service, including one of my best friends much later when we were both in the military. I remember their funerals and memorials. I remember the faces of their families, their wives, sons and daughters, their parents, who also gave the best part of their lives, their much loved family and friends who made the ultimate sacrifice in honor for our country.

You're telling me their sacrifices were for nothing.

I, too, spent time in the military, 20+ years in the United States Air Force. Active duty, regular, flew many combat missions throughout the world, complete with counting bullet holes after we'd landed. The young man with whom I swore in on that Spring day in 1989 gave his life just five years later in a training accident. It was no less honorable than anyone who has died in combat.

Exactly one month ago, I attended my son's graduation at boot camp. I had the opportunity to talk to a few of his friends, and I see in both him and his friends the same pride in their country and service, the same dedication to duty, and the same honor of service as I saw in my father and fellow service members, in myself and my brothers in arms, and in many others throughout my 56 years.

But enough of my experience. Let's examine a few of your statements:

"Freedom is a natural RIGHT, just like RTKBA, so no thanks is given..."

Freedom is never free. It is only won at a terrible price paid for by a few so that the rest of us can enjoy freedom. Those payments aren't steady. They come in punctuated bursts throughout history, but those sacrifices are precisely why we honor them, as they made those sacrifices to secure our freedom, and in far more ways you can imagine. The very fact that you enjoy the benefits of inexpensive overseas commerce and shipping, perhaps with your laptop or phone is perhaps the clearest example of one of the countless tangible benefits because manufacturers are free so ship products around the world on the high seas without constantly worrying about pirating. You can travel throughout most parts of the word in relative safety because of the sacrifices made by our service members over the centuries.

"i guarantee you, if the US Govt' gives no benefits then how many new recruits would you see enlisting?"

Nearly all. Recruits who enlist receive a small monetary compensation for their blood, sweat, and tears. You're probably off, today, as it's a Sunday. But my son is pulling the duty, beginning at 0530 hours this morning and not ending until 1730 hours this evening. They have mandatory formation tomorrow for Memorial Day. Don't forget to include the long hours nearly all members of the military serve, nor the family separations for months, sometimes more than a year at a stretch, away from their own families. That, too, is sacrifice. But do they do this for the pay? No. Do they even do this for the benefits? Not really, as most of them never realize those benefits unless they're wounded while on the job or in combat. Many do serve in order to obtain outstanding training which they can use later on in civilian life. However, most recruits don't jump ship after their first term of enlistment is up, either. They continue to serve, despite the fact that most of the technical training for which civilian employers may be looking is already behind them.

"We already have this history lesson, during the Vietnam war, when low recruitments with all branch of the military, so "The Drafts" took effect."

Selective Service remains in effect. It's simply not active. And for your information, it was active from Colonial times to 1862, during the Civil War, World War I, between the wars, World War II, throughout most of the Cold War, and the Vietnam War. Conscription ended in December, 1972. Command Sergeant Major Jeff Mellinger, believed to be the last drafted enlisted ranked soldier still on active duty, retired in 2011. Chief Warrant Officer 5 Ralph E. Rigby, the last Vietnam War-era drafted soldier of Warrant Officer rank, retired from the army on November 10, 2014 after a 42-year career. On July 2, 1980, President Jimmy Carter issued Presidential Proclamation 4771 and re-instated the requirement that young men register with the Selective Service System. I registered at my local post office when I turned 18, then volunteered just seven years later, despite two lucrative job offers for 33% more than O-1 pay and 49% more than O-1 pay, respectively.

"Are you kidding me????? Soldiers who enlist now, they are not enlisting because they believe in fighting for honor and "The right thing."

That precisely the opposite of what I heard from an entire class of some 600 boot camp graduates just one month ago. Mind you, I didn't speak with all of them, nor did my son who went through, but he lived and worked with many of them for two months and he reports that's EXACTLY what most of them believe. By the way, they don't "fight for Honor." They fight for our COUNTRY because they understand DUTY and do so with HONOR.

You're chock full of a ton of other grossly ignorant, condescending comments like, "keep telling yourself that," so I'll just give you one thing more, a dot at the end of this sentence, commonly known as a period -- enjoy your period.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
11,878
Location
White Oak Plantation
I got a letter, after we were back from up under the ice for three months back in 81 or 82. The letter was from the Selective Service, informing me that I was not eligible for military service because I had failed to register. Took the letter to the XO and informed him that I was not eligible for military service. The XO snatched the letter from my hand, tore it into tiny pieces and "informed" me to get my back-side back to work. That was my forth trip in two years up under the ice chasing russkies...I was looking forward to not doing that anymore...
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,570
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I got a letter, after we were back from up under the ice for three months back in 81 or 82. The letter was from the Selective Service, informing me that I was not eligible for military service because I had failed to register. Took the letter to the XO and informed him that I was not eligible for military service. The XO snatched the letter from my hand, tore it into tiny pieces and "informed" me to get my back-side back to work. That was my forth trip in two years up under the ice chasing russkies...I was looking forward to not doing that anymore...
Are you sure the letter was not addressed to your evil twin?
 

FreedomVA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
407
Location
FreedomVA
Memorial Day commemorates the men and women who died while in the military service of their country, particularly those who died in battle or as a result of wounds sustained in battle. In other words, the purpose of Memorial Day is to memorialize the veterans who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country. We spend time remembering those who lost their lives and could not come home, reflecting on their service and why we have the luxury and freedom that we enjoy today. We might consider how we can support and safeguard their grieving families and loved ones who are left behind.

FreedomVA, while I most certainly respect your rights to both formulate and communicate your opinion, I cannot respect the opinions you have expressed herein one bit. They indicate a gross level of ignorance and misunderstanding of nature and role of our military as well as a flagrant misunderstanding of our mission and values which appear to be beyond your current level of education and experience.

In your numerous diatribes against the U.S. Military, you spouted utter junk, things which I know from long-term personal experience and association with the military to be utterly false. As for my association, I was a Navy brat. My father was in for 31 years, 25 years after I was born until he retired. Perhaps you don't understand what it means to grow up in the military, but from the youngest age I attended numerous changes of command, somber memorials, and social and family gatherings. Roughly half the families on my street were in the military, so roughly half my friends had a parent who was in the military. Of the five best friends I had growing up in four different locations from age 3 to 18, four joined the military. On occasion I would accompany my father to work and met and conversed with many of his co-workers. He was in Naval aviation throughout most of his career from 1957 through his retirement in 1988.

I remember quite well those of our friends, family and neighbors who died for their service, including one of my best friends much later when we were both in the military. I remember their funerals and memorials. I remember the faces of their families, their wives, sons and daughters, their parents, who also gave the best part of their lives, their much loved family and friends who made the ultimate sacrifice in honor for our country.

You're telling me their sacrifices were for nothing.

I, too, spent time in the military, 20+ years in the United States Air Force. Active duty, regular, flew many combat missions throughout the world, complete with counting bullet holes after we'd landed. The young man with whom I swore in on that Spring day in 1989 gave his life just five years later in a training accident. It was no less honorable than anyone who has died in combat.

Exactly one month ago, I attended my son's graduation at boot camp. I had the opportunity to talk to a few of his friends, and I see in both him and his friends the same pride in their country and service, the same dedication to duty, and the same honor of service as I saw in my father and fellow service members, in myself and my brothers in arms, and in many others throughout my 56 years.

But enough of my experience. Let's examine a few of your statements:

"Freedom is a natural RIGHT, just like RTKBA, so no thanks is given..."

Freedom is never free. It is only won at a terrible price paid for by a few so that the rest of us can enjoy freedom. Those payments aren't steady. They come in punctuated bursts throughout history, but those sacrifices are precisely why we honor them, as they made those sacrifices to secure our freedom, and in far more ways you can imagine. The very fact that you enjoy the benefits of inexpensive overseas commerce and shipping, perhaps with your laptop or phone is perhaps the clearest example of one of the countless tangible benefits because manufacturers are free so ship products around the world on the high seas without constantly worrying about pirating. You can travel throughout most parts of the word in relative safety because of the sacrifices made by our service members over the centuries.

"i guarantee you, if the US Govt' gives no benefits then how many new recruits would you see enlisting?"

Nearly all. Recruits who enlist receive a small monetary compensation for their blood, sweat, and tears. You're probably off, today, as it's a Sunday. But my son is pulling the duty, beginning at 0530 hours this morning and not ending until 1730 hours this evening. They have mandatory formation tomorrow for Memorial Day. Don't forget to include the long hours nearly all members of the military serve, nor the family separations for months, sometimes more than a year at a stretch, away from their own families. That, too, is sacrifice. But do they do this for the pay? No. Do they even do this for the benefits? Not really, as most of them never realize those benefits unless they're wounded while on the job or in combat. Many do serve in order to obtain outstanding training which they can use later on in civilian life. However, most recruits don't jump ship after their first term of enlistment is up, either. They continue to serve, despite the fact that most of the technical training for which civilian employers may be looking is already behind them.

"We already have this history lesson, during the Vietnam war, when low recruitments with all branch of the military, so "The Drafts" took effect."

Selective Service remains in effect. It's simply not active. And for your information, it was active from Colonial times to 1862, during the Civil War, World War I, between the wars, World War II, throughout most of the Cold War, and the Vietnam War. Conscription ended in December, 1972. Command Sergeant Major Jeff Mellinger, believed to be the last drafted enlisted ranked soldier still on active duty, retired in 2011. Chief Warrant Officer 5 Ralph E. Rigby, the last Vietnam War-era drafted soldier of Warrant Officer rank, retired from the army on November 10, 2014 after a 42-year career. On July 2, 1980, President Jimmy Carter issued Presidential Proclamation 4771 and re-instated the requirement that young men register with the Selective Service System. I registered at my local post office when I turned 18, then volunteered just seven years later, despite two lucrative job offers for 33% more than O-1 pay and 49% more than O-1 pay, respectively.

"Are you kidding me????? Soldiers who enlist now, they are not enlisting because they believe in fighting for honor and "The right thing."

That precisely the opposite of what I heard from an entire class of some 600 boot camp graduates just one month ago. Mind you, I didn't speak with all of them, nor did my son who went through, but he lived and worked with many of them for two months and he reports that's EXACTLY what most of them believe. By the way, they don't "fight for Honor." They fight for our COUNTRY because they understand DUTY and do so with HONOR.

You're chock full of a ton of other grossly ignorant, condescending comments like, "keep telling yourself that," so I'll just give you one thing more, a dot at the end of this sentence, commonly known as a period -- enjoy your period.

Happy Memorial Day
 
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