My Grips could land me in prison?

[PT111]

You need to remember that if you are the defendant in a case involving a shooting you do not have to testify or answer any questions from anyone. In fact you do not have to present any defense. If you do not think that the prosecutor has presented an adequate case you do not have to present any defense and let the jury decide based on the prosecutions case. I have seen this work in DUI cases but not in more serious cases.

The prosecutor is going to not only present the actual facts but is going to present "state of mind" evidence (all conjectural but legal) on what your mental background is. If you have punisher grips on your gun, wearing a punisher t-shirt and some of the prosecution witnesses tell about how that is all you talk about and seem to be out looking for someone to punish then you are not going to look good to a jury no matter what actually happened to cause you to shoot. If he thinks it will help his case he is going to present evidence on what kind of "cop killer" bullets you were using, how much you practiced and how, what kind of unusual or "movie" type gun you were using. He will call your "friends" as well as "experts" to tell how you were possessed with defending your self and how you wrote about it on OCDO. In other words every thing you do or say is goinf to be scrutinized.

No jus the punisher grips will not send you to jail but after the prosecutor gets through with convincing the jury how crazy you were and out looking for an excuse to kill someone you are going to have to defend yourself against that. The part about innocent until proven guilty, he is going to do his best to prove you not only guilty but crazy at the same time and you are going to have to prove you are innocent.

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

A cop buddy of mine says that If I were to use my 1911 for self defense (i've got Punisher grips on her rite now), that I would most likely be nailed to the wall by the convicting DA. He sed it's because "The Punisher" is a vigilante who (and I quote) "Goes on vindictive killing sprees". I'm guessing he meant that maybe the DA could use the fact that my grips had the Punisher skull on them, and maybe say that I was out looking for trouble or sumthing? IDK,sounds plausable. Thoughts guys?

I don't believe that a cosmetic feature on your firearm can be used as evidence that you were not justified in using deadly force if you were to do so with your 1911 and its decorative grips...

WI Law is very specific regarding self defense and the use of deadly force. Until someone can provide me a WI court case where someone in WI was convicted "just" because they used a scary looking firearm or used reloaded ammunition with scary looking bullets, I am not buying into the sensationalism. There are WI (WCI) carry activists who love to speak this rhetoric to the crowds, but I personally dismiss it. If I am forced to use deadly force to defend myself or a Loved one, you can be assured that whatever I use will be horribly scary to the person I was forced to use it against. I load with Black Talon and other expanding bullets because they are effective at stopping a threat before that threat can fatally wound me.

People like to use the Harold Fish case from Arizona where he was convicted of 2nd Degree Murder after shooting a man in self defense with his 10mm. Although a big deal was made by the prosecution regarding the fact that a 10mm was used, the reason he was convicted is that the jury did not hear all of the evidence regarding the man he shot and his mental health. Also, at the time, Arizona law required you to prove that you used deadly force properly instead of the State having to prove that you did not. The law in Arizona has since changed.

 

[JJC]

I really liked the Punisher 'ghost' grips... but even here in gun fantastic Arizona... such stuff could present a problem to a not-so gun friendly prosecutor (if it ever came to that). For that reason, I only carry factory fmj ball ammo (which the pistol was designed for) to further avoid any unpleasantries that might require an explanation to the unwashed masses in the jury box. My 1911 is as plain Jane basic as they come... grips are WWI era diamond cut oak.

"FMJ Ball Ammo", not only would take out the bad guy, but also the witnesses you might need to help your case that were standing behind the BG. Not a pleasant situation to find yourself in.

I would check out what the local LO's carry and match that. That way you can at least put forth the argument that, for safety reasons you carry that same as the LEO's. ( emphasis on NOT acting as a LEO, but safety for the witness in the background ).

Ball ammo just has too much pass through capabilities.

JJC

 

[AdamXD]

I tentatively agree with your cop buddy, but by following his own train of logic, and the use of reductio ad absurdum then THIS rifle couldn't possibly hurt anyone...

Some people just can't understand that guns are inanimate objects created by humans to be used as a tool. Not matter the appearance. Like any tool, it's uses are vast and many, with not all of them being good.

 

[shotcop]

I tentatively agree with your cop buddy, but by following his own train of logic, and the use of reductio ad absurdum then THIS rifle couldn't possibly hurt anyone...

Some people just can't understand that guns are inanimate objects created by humans to be used as a tool. Not matter the appearance. Like any tool, it's uses are vast and many, with not all of them being good.

Tue it is a tool, but if you had a hammer with "Looking for a nail" on the handle things might not go well. Attitude and State of mind figure into every case especially where a jury is concerned. Corn cannot get a fair trial with a jury of chickens

 

[rcawdor57]

Custom Grips For Your 1911

I like the "Don't Tread On Me" grips best. Here is a site that has some fantastic 1911 grip panels:

http://www.riograndecustomgrips.com/fullsize1911grips.html

And another: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=520496

 

[phred]

Formal wear

I like the "Don't Tread On Me" grips best. Here is a site that has some fantastic 1911 grip panels:

http://www.riograndecustomgrips.com/fullsize1911grips.html

And another: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=520496

Another characteristic of a 1911 (besides shooting well and looking well-groomed to begin with) - they do dress up nicely (for those fancy occasions)

 

[Landose_theghost]

I like the "Don't Tread On Me" grips best. Here is a site that has some fantastic 1911 grip panels:

http://www.riograndecustomgrips.com/fullsize1911grips.html

And another: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=520496

Me likey all the grips! I had to wipe a lil drool off my mouth after checking those links out man lol! Thanks 4 tha RE.

-Landose-

 

[Sonora Rebel]

You use FMJ as a carry ammo? Are you trying to shoot the people behind your intended target also?

'Had to shoot a dog with it and the rounds did not pass thru. .45acp is about 920 fps...

 

[xd40arff]

Milwaukee police looked into ‘Punishers’ group
Report expressed concern about 'rogue officers'

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/112982324.html

 

[LR Yote 312]

Milwaukee police looked into ‘Punishers’ group
Report expressed concern about 'rogue officers'

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/112982324.html

Just read the article and was gonna post a link then I saw it was already posted.

LR Yote

 

[davegran]

I can't get this image out of my mind....

Milwaukee police looked into ‘Punishers’ group
Report expressed concern about 'rogue officers'

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/112982324.html

At first when I started reading this article, I thought it said,

Shortly after Frank Jude Jr. was beaten, a Milwaukee Police Department commander investigated a suspected rogue group of officers known as "the Punishers," who wore black gloves and capes embossed with skull emblems while on patrol, according to newly released documents.

Even though, after cleaning off my keyboard, I went back and reread it correctly:

Shortly after Frank Jude Jr. was beaten, a Milwaukee Police Department commander investigated a suspected rogue group of officers known as "the Punishers," who wore black gloves and caps embossed with skull emblems while on patrol, according to newly released documents.

I still have that first image in my mind....

Help me!

Oh, just to keep it on topic , I have a nice, brand new set of dark, smooth Dymondwood grips for a 1911 from this location. These were given to me as a gift but I will trade them for a set of double diamond or combat checkering grips, lighter colors preferred. PM me if interested. No plastic grips, please.

 

[Gunslinger]

A cop buddy of mine says that If I were to use my 1911 for self defense (i've got Punisher grips on her rite now), that I would most likely be nailed to the wall by the convicting DA. He sed it's because "The Punisher" is a vigilante who (and I quote) "Goes on vindictive killing sprees". I'm guessing he meant that maybe the DA could use the fact that my grips had the Punisher skull on them, and maybe say that I was out looking for trouble or sumthing? IDK,sounds plausable. Thoughts guys?

Here's a pic of a similar 1911, same grips i've got rite now:

I have "Hello Kitty" grips on all of my handguns. That will make as much difference in court as having Punisher grips. To wit: none.

 

[Landose_theghost]

@ Dave Gran:

LMAO @ the Capes! Almost spit my coffee all over the keys!

 

[HandyHamlet]

Looks like you are in good company!

Nothing further to add.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/01...edingCool+(Bleeding+Cool+Comic+News+&+Rumors)


Did The Punisher Inspire Milwaukee Police Gang?
Submitted by Rich Johnston on January 6, 2011 – 7:00 am

A rogue group of police officers known as “The Punishers”. Wearing black gloves and caps with white skull emblems on them. Some even with Punisher tattoos on their arms. Going on patrol dishing out their own form of vigilante justice.

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/112982324.html

Milwaukee police looked into ‘Punishers’ group
Report expressed concern about 'rogue officers'

By John Diedrich of the Journal Sentinel

Jan. 5, 2011

Shortly after Frank Jude Jr. was beaten, a Milwaukee Police Department commander investigated a suspected rogue group of officers known as "the Punishers," who wore black gloves and caps embossed with skull emblems while on patrol, according to newly released documents.

Capt. James Galezewski examined what his report calls a "gang," first in 2005 and again in 2007. The police academy supervisor concluded both times the Punishers represented a danger that warranted further investigation and action by the department, according to documents newly unsealed in Jude's federal civil rights lawsuit against the city.

 

[IcrewUH60]

my two cents.

with the current environment and attitude towards gun owners (W.A.V.E. members are on record stating they would shoot the m'fers [gun owners] right between the eyes) I would think about this: All facts of the case being equal and pointing to a clear case of lawful self defense, the images on your grips could be "the" deciding factor to prosecute. Why risk being dragged into court with your freedom on the line over some custom grips? It's more than a customization of your weapon, it's an image that makes a statement. A statement I would not want working against me at a time where my name and freedom are on the line.

 

[AaronS]

with the current environment and attitude towards gun owners (W.A.V.E. members are on record stating they would shoot the m'fers [gun owners] right between the eyes) I would think about this: All facts of the case being equal and pointing to a clear case of lawful self defense, the images on your grips could be "the" deciding factor to prosecute. Why risk being dragged into court with your freedom on the line over some custom grips? It's more than a customization of your weapon, it's an image that makes a statement. A statement I would not want working against me at a time where my name and freedom are on the line.

Well put. I don't like it at all, but it is the truth.

I think the gun looks great with 'em on...

 

[ccwinstructor]

Use factory Ammo that a Police department uses

I've heard similar things. In my Utah carry class a similar point was brought up about ammo. Don't carry with some custom round that you loaded yourself. The prosecutor could try to argue that you loaded a hot round to do more damage for exampe. Always use run of the mill mass produced ammo and keep extra ammo and the box that came with it just in case. Same thing with things like custom triggers, barrels, etc. Everything you do with the gun you have to think about how the prosecutor or even public could try to put a spin on it should you ever have to use it. If prosecuted you are going to have enough things to try to do to prove your case without having extra things like this to have to fight.

For the above reason, I recommend that people do not use handloads. I recommend that they do some research and determine what quality defense ammo various police departments use, determine what will work best for them, and then choose ammo used by a police department that uses the ammo they have decided on. If it the ammo issue ever comes up, it can be shown that you researced the issue and decided to use the same defensive ammo that police use.