tCan
Regular Member
What exactly are the the statues for identifying yourself to an officer I know you don't have to show them your ID (papers), but what information do you have to give them if any and under what circumstances?
What a broad question. The best I can do for you is refer you to the Fourth Amendment and Fifth Amendment and court cases Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada and Terry v. Ohio. There are a lot of good videos on youtube that deal with open carry and contact with law enforcement. I will not point out any specific one so...What exactly are the the statues for identifying yourself to an officer I know you don't have to show them your ID (papers), but what information do you have to give them if any and under what circumstances?
What exactly are the the statues for identifying yourself to an officer I know you don't have to show them your ID (papers), but what information do you have to give them if any and under what circumstances?
To be detained means you are suspected of committing a crime that warrants further investigation. A common conversation in a open carriers contact by a LEO goes something like this:So suppose you are detained, do you have to tell them your name and DOB
....... but you are licensed to carry concealed so you have to produce ID for them no matter what,see how great open carry is.
"While many states have enacted “stop and identify” statutes such as the one in Hiibel, North Carolina has not. The State overlooks this crucial distinction. We further note that in Hiibel, the Supreme Court did not hold that an officer could, during the Terry frisk, search for proof of identification as well as weapons. Although the Court did note in passing that officers called to investigate domestic disputes need to know whom they are dealing with in order to assess the situation and the threat to their own safety, the Court did not suggest that an officer can use a pat-down to locate an identification card. Id. at 186, 124 S.Ct. at 2458, 159 L.Ed.2d at 303."
^From: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nc-court-of-appeals/1577841.html
Hiibel is largely irrelevant in NC and other states who have not adopted "stop and ID" statutes.
You don't have to show your ID, or provide your info in NC. Even if you're being detained. However, I was arrested for refusing to do just that and charged with obstruction. It was dismissed 5 months later, after much stress and heartache (and a night in county, and $1500 bond, and $1500 attorney fees, and stealing my favorite 1911 until the matter was settled etc...)
Weigh your decision, and if at all possible film / record the encounter. My recording is the only thing that saved my ass from a cop who had no problem providing completely false statements to the DA, which were subsequently completely countered by my video evidence.
I think the best thing to do would be to film the officer threatening you with arrest or charges for failing to provide ID (which is a lie), and then filing a complaint as soon as possible. You have the law on your side, but that may not keep you out of jail if you "stick to your guns" on the issue.
"The Claim and exercise of a Constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
Miller v. U.S.
The Third Circuit found that an individual’s lawful possession of a firearm in a crowded place did not justify a search or seizure.
United States v. Ubiles
The Tenth Circuit found that an investigatory detention initiated by an officer after he discovered that the defendant lawfully possessed a loaded firearm lacked sufficient basis because the firearm alone did not create a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.
United States v. King
"Stopping a car for no other reason than to check the license and registration was unreasonable under the 4th amendment."
Delaware v. Prouse
[So obviously stopping someone solely to check for a carry license is also an unreasonable search.]
"The mere presence of firearms does not create exigent circumstances."
Wisconsin v. Kiekhefer
"Mr. St. John’s lawful possession of a loaded firearm in a crowded place could not, by itself, create a reasonable suspicion sufficient to justify an investigatory detention."
St. John v. McColley
"Police conduct does not need to be egregious or outrageous in order to be coercive. Subtle pressures are considered to be coercive if they exceed the defendant’s ability to resist. Pressures that are not coercive in one set of circumstances may be coercive in another set of circumstances."
Wisconsin v. Hoppe
*****
42USC1983 Civil action for deprivation of rights
Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress...
42USC1985 Conspiracy to interfere with civil rights
(which is applicable to anyone but is still only a civil action)
(3) Depriving persons of rights or privileges
If two or more persons in any State ... conspire ... for the purpose of depriving, either directly or indirectly, any person ... of equal privileges and immunities under the laws
...
in any case of conspiracy set forth in this section, if one or more persons engaged therein do, or cause to be done, any act in furtherance of the object of such conspiracy, whereby another is ... deprived of having and exercising any right or privilege of a citizen of the United States, the party so injured or deprived may have an action for the recovery of damages occasioned by such injury or deprivation, against any one or more of the conspirators.
18USC241 Conspiracy against rights, however, is a felony & is applicable to anyone.
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State ... in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same
...
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both...
I was less than a mile from my house at around 1am on Monday night / Tuesday morning. I'm driving (snip).
if you are carrying concealed you have to notify imediatly when adressed and produce you cc permit.you cc permit refers the cop to your drvers licence.
you must show your drivers licence.
I was less than a mile from my house at around 1am on Monday night / Tuesday morning. I'm driving home from the airport - so I didn't have my gun with me (only took carry-on items and I was not going to leave it in the car at the airport) - after a long day of travel from Austin, TX. I'm in Northern Durham county on a secondary road (maybe even tertiary - idk) and come up on a roadblock consisting of 2 sheriff deputies. They said it was a "license check". What a crock that is. I didn't argue because I remembered reading somewhere that the courts said that those kinds of stops were OK as long as they were stopping everyone.
I'm still not sure - but it was bs, nonetheless.