Liberty-or-Death
Regular Member
So cryptic.
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NC OC experience reports
- Thread starter glockaholic
- Start date
i am normally not a critical individual...but the bard said it best...something is rotten in denmark...
in another NC thread out here you stated you were carrying a knife?
something...just something...is worrisome with this member's story...
ipse
bc.cruiser
Regular Member
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful
purposes.
"firearms or other dangerous weapons"....include black powder guns, bows, and crossbows
"a Federal facility..................................think outside the building; include the property such as Ft Bragg range area
"incident to hunting".............................meaning used for the purpose of hunting; a necessary accessory
"other lawful purposes".........................shooting ranges, displays, etc
An example would be to carry the gun/bow/black powder gun onto a federal facility/installation to hunt or the go to a firing range, such as we do here at Ft Bragg.
PATRIOT88
Banned
It is completely and fully LEGAL to open carry anything....Ive done my research. North Carolina is a universal unrestricted open carry state. Knives, Firearms, Bows, Muskets, Tasers, Batons, etc you can all open carry. Do not see what is so worrisome. Im not hiding anything. My face is UNCOVERED and Im not doing anything illegal or wrong. If any of you were in the areas I frequent, you'd see. Why, when I have yet to have any issue or conflict and have not threatened anyone, would my factual story be so worrisome?
bc.cruiser
Regular Member
Quite true...10 years ago. Quality/reliability was really hit or miss. Both have made significant improvements. I own both a HiPoint carbine and pistol, in .45ACP. Both have been absolutely reliable, although the pistol is an ugly brick. New, you can get the pistol for $135 plus $10 shipping, and whatever fee the FFL charges. Note that HP now warrants only to the original buyer, with proof of purchase (exceptions are made, of course).
Since this was 30-60 minutes after you ate, were you still at or near the Waffle House? Did you file a formal complaint with the police department and/or the city attorney office? Destruction of private property is not to be tolerated.
You stated in a following post how familiar with the law you are, yet you allowed them to disarm you and conduct a search of your person and property. We OC because we do not wish to CC, or to beg permission from the state to do so, and we don't give up rights just because of our choice.
You indicate that you were transported back across county lines to Catawba county. What was the given excuse? More rights were violated here if you did not ask for the ride.
If you do get a proper handgun, put a piece of electrical tape over the serial number; it would then properly require a warrant to remove it in order to run the serial number. It is also not illegal, in that you are not defacing or obliterating the number. It will irritate them.
We criticize your choice of carrying a CO2 pistol for the simple reason of what it cannot do for you.
Good luck to you.
BlowMonkey5
Regular Member
buy the C9...mine is still my favorite gun to shoot:monkey
Definitely not so - you need to be more thorough in doing your research/homework.
You haven't had any issue? Really? That statement conflicts with your prior posts.
Chapel Hill has a restriction about the size of a handgun that can be open carried within it’s city limits, and severely limits the locations one can be carried. (Chapel Hill CC 11-130 – 139)
One very important thing to keep in mind is the common law offense of “Going armed to the terror of the people” in NC. http://www.guncite.com/court/state/25nc418.html
A judge in 1843 was nice enough to create this little law that basically says if you carry a gun and terrorize someone you are guilty of a crime. But it is frequently mistakenly charged by police when the gun is only being carried and is not being used to threaten anyone. The case specifically says “the carrying of a gun, per se, constitutes no offence”, but the litmus for the charge is to carry it “in such manner as naturally will terrify and alarm a peaceful people”.
http://www.myreporter.com/2011/01/can-i-carry-a-pistol-openly-in-north-carolina/
Knives - yep, some are restricted/illegal someplaces:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife2.pdf
http://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/knives-and-the-right-to-bear-arms/
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
State V Kerner the court ruled that 3. Weapons--Knives, etc., not "arms" within constitutional provision.
Bowie knives, dirks, daggers, slung-shots, loaded canes, brass, iron, or metallic knucks, (p.223)razors, etc., the carrying of which is prohibited by Pub. Loc. Laws 1919, c. 317, are not "arms" within Const. art. 1, § 24, preserving the right to bear arms. (Per Clark, C.J., and Hoke, J.)http://www.guncite.com/court/state/107se222.html
Bowie knives, dirks, daggers, slung-shots, loaded canes, brass, iron, or metallic knucks, (p.223)razors, etc., the carrying of which is prohibited by Pub. Loc. Laws 1919, c. 317, are not "arms" within Const. art. 1, § 24, preserving the right to bear arms. (Per Clark, C.J., and Hoke, J.)http://www.guncite.com/court/state/107se222.html
drsysadmin
Regular Member
@Patriot88
#1) Waffle House locations are clearly and conspicuously posted that firearms are not allowed. Its one reason I no longer give them my business. So carrying there is a crime, though one could argue that management could point out the posting before calling the cops. Had you been carrying a real firearm, the cops would have had a legal foundation to charge you on a gun charge.
#2) Your encounter occurred 30 minutes after you ate - at the location. So you were just hanging around outside with your toy gun on your hip? For what purpose? Remember, that isn't public property. At best you were guilty of loitering (which is also posted as not allowed). Your presence could reasonably be construed as you choosing to remain on private property once your business was completed, while intentionally appearing as armed (whether you were or not). You can do that on some public property - but on private property that you do not own and that is clearly marked infers an INTENT to make people think you were armed in order to create a encounter with either management or LE. Your actions were geared to at least create suspicion amongst the patrons and management of the Waffle House.
#3) While I do not condone destruction of your property, nor of your being "run out of town" quite literally, your actions make it clear that your intent was not that of a reasonable, law abiding citizen interested in being left alone by government or its agents. You intentionally acted to provoke an encounter while choosing to violate the private property rights of another and committing the crime of loitering. If you expect sympathy from me your barking up the wrong tree.
The way I see it - you put yourself in a situation where you could (or should) have been charged with a crime. LE has a lot of choices when they deal with the idiots and scum of the world. I suspect they gave you a choice, either get charged or get in the car and they would take you out of the area so they don't have to deal with your dumbassery any longer. It would appear you likely chose the latter option. True, you shouldn't have had your property destroyed. That I will agree with.
Then again - if you did that kind of stupid crap on some people's private property, having your toy harmed would be the last of your problems. If you had been at a location with some open carriers - I know a few that would have walked out, surrounded and confronted you if the staff or patrons were concerned about your antics. Then you would have been what you are here in my opinion - a laughing stock who chooses to carry a toy and tries to create problems and incidents so he/she can complain about them.
I strongly suspect based upon your actions reported here - along with some of your other posts that show your general LACK of knowledge and understanding about what the laws actually are, and your blatant disrespect of the rights of private property of others - that your much more of an anti trying to stir up issues than you are a 2A supporter. Thus - I am done with your idiocy.
#1) Waffle House locations are clearly and conspicuously posted that firearms are not allowed. Its one reason I no longer give them my business. So carrying there is a crime, though one could argue that management could point out the posting before calling the cops. Had you been carrying a real firearm, the cops would have had a legal foundation to charge you on a gun charge.
#2) Your encounter occurred 30 minutes after you ate - at the location. So you were just hanging around outside with your toy gun on your hip? For what purpose? Remember, that isn't public property. At best you were guilty of loitering (which is also posted as not allowed). Your presence could reasonably be construed as you choosing to remain on private property once your business was completed, while intentionally appearing as armed (whether you were or not). You can do that on some public property - but on private property that you do not own and that is clearly marked infers an INTENT to make people think you were armed in order to create a encounter with either management or LE. Your actions were geared to at least create suspicion amongst the patrons and management of the Waffle House.
#3) While I do not condone destruction of your property, nor of your being "run out of town" quite literally, your actions make it clear that your intent was not that of a reasonable, law abiding citizen interested in being left alone by government or its agents. You intentionally acted to provoke an encounter while choosing to violate the private property rights of another and committing the crime of loitering. If you expect sympathy from me your barking up the wrong tree.
The way I see it - you put yourself in a situation where you could (or should) have been charged with a crime. LE has a lot of choices when they deal with the idiots and scum of the world. I suspect they gave you a choice, either get charged or get in the car and they would take you out of the area so they don't have to deal with your dumbassery any longer. It would appear you likely chose the latter option. True, you shouldn't have had your property destroyed. That I will agree with.
Then again - if you did that kind of stupid crap on some people's private property, having your toy harmed would be the last of your problems. If you had been at a location with some open carriers - I know a few that would have walked out, surrounded and confronted you if the staff or patrons were concerned about your antics. Then you would have been what you are here in my opinion - a laughing stock who chooses to carry a toy and tries to create problems and incidents so he/she can complain about them.
I strongly suspect based upon your actions reported here - along with some of your other posts that show your general LACK of knowledge and understanding about what the laws actually are, and your blatant disrespect of the rights of private property of others - that your much more of an anti trying to stir up issues than you are a 2A supporter. Thus - I am done with your idiocy.
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Very good post, hopefully he takes it to heart. I get the feeling from his postings he is very immature, no matter what his age is, and I think it had a lot to do with how the police interacted with him.
carolina guy
Regular Member
Gotcha...do you have a cite where they define these? I am just curious...IMO, if you are on the way to/from your chosen location for hunting, you are covered and really curious what they actually define as a "lawful purpose"...it would seem that self defense would be one of those "lawful" purposes per SCOTUS and common law. Again, just curious, not trying to spark debate.
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carolina guy
Regular Member
I would think that it is entirely likely they have no loitering signs posted...giving the police the right to arrest w/o needing to trespass the person first. Caldwell county already has enough "problem" residents...the police and deputies tend to have a little less patience correspondingly. Sounds like he frankly got lucky they were willing to give him a ride for free that didn't stop at the jail.
bc.cruiser
Regular Member
The less than conspicuous sign that Waffle House uses is nowhere near the entrance, nor is it at a height that lends itself to notice. It is usually a yellow sign near the back, or dumpster end, of the building and about 8-10' up the wall.
For Carolina Guy: (Gotcha...do you have a cite where they define these? I am just curious...IMO, if you are on the way to/from your chosen location for hunting, you are covered and really curious what they actually define as a "lawful purpose"...it would seem that self defense would be one of those "lawful" purposes per SCOTUS and common law. Again, just curious, not trying to spark debate.)
I would use the remainder of the law cited; however, part of it corrects my definition of facility. VA hospitals, the USPS, and courts would lie outside the realm of facilities that would be entered incident to hunting; possibly the office of the DNR or BLM officer might be, if you needed to go in to get a pass or something similar (but would probably be posted anyway). Other "lawful purposes" would be found under other statutes/regulations; those would be case specific and I don't have the interest in ferreting them out (at least until it becomes a personal necessity:lol You could likely make a case of entering a federal facility as an escape from an assailant to be a lawful purpose....."Your Honor, I had to shoot because I was cornered in an entrance to this Court, and I knew entering with a firearm is against the law".
" TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
-HEAD-
Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal
facilities
-STATUTE-
*********************************
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ''Federal facility'' means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term ''dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket
knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.
*******************************************
For Carolina Guy: (Gotcha...do you have a cite where they define these? I am just curious...IMO, if you are on the way to/from your chosen location for hunting, you are covered and really curious what they actually define as a "lawful purpose"...it would seem that self defense would be one of those "lawful" purposes per SCOTUS and common law. Again, just curious, not trying to spark debate.)
I would use the remainder of the law cited; however, part of it corrects my definition of facility. VA hospitals, the USPS, and courts would lie outside the realm of facilities that would be entered incident to hunting; possibly the office of the DNR or BLM officer might be, if you needed to go in to get a pass or something similar (but would probably be posted anyway). Other "lawful purposes" would be found under other statutes/regulations; those would be case specific and I don't have the interest in ferreting them out (at least until it becomes a personal necessity:lol
You could likely make a case of entering a federal facility as an escape from an assailant to be a lawful purpose....."Your Honor, I had to shoot because I was cornered in an entrance to this Court, and I knew entering with a firearm is against the law"." TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
-HEAD-
Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal
facilities
-STATUTE-
*********************************
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ''Federal facility'' means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term ''dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket
knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.
*******************************************
Liberty-or-Death
Regular Member
It's 7 feet above the sidewalk at the rear corner of the building, facing the parking lot. In my opinion, it applies to the parking lot, not the dining room.
To my knowledge, all WH are posted with identical signage. Of course here in VA, signs do NOT carry the weight of law.
bc.cruiser
Regular Member
Never saw a one in the Nashville TN area.
WF in Arden (south of Asheville) and on Rt 226 north of Asheville were not posted.
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Liberty-or-Death
Regular Member
Check again and report back?
drsysadmin
Regular Member
@Bc.Cruiser
If you mean the one on Long Shoals Rd, both it and the one on 191 are posted. Is there one farther south? The one on Airport road is gone entirely, so I don't know of another in the Arden/Skyland area.
Haven't been by the one in Weaverville in a while.
I have carried in WF a lot up until I learned about the posting. I find it suprising that it does post. Until I find one that isn't posted OR I get written confirmation that the sign does not apply to patrons inside, I will not frequent them.
How many other OCers are in WNC? We should organize a lunch or something.
If you mean the one on Long Shoals Rd, both it and the one on 191 are posted. Is there one farther south? The one on Airport road is gone entirely, so I don't know of another in the Arden/Skyland area.
Haven't been by the one in Weaverville in a while.
I have carried in WF a lot up until I learned about the posting. I find it suprising that it does post. Until I find one that isn't posted OR I get written confirmation that the sign does not apply to patrons inside, I will not frequent them.
How many other OCers are in WNC? We should organize a lunch or something.
papa bear
Regular Member
I have not found a WH that is not posted. Most people just don't pay attention
I would love to do something in Lenoir. We would need to do something that would get attention.like a walk down town. Been awhile since I have been to Lenoir, never had a probable there
bc.cruiser
Regular Member
I guess since my info is as of August 2012, we are out of luck with WF. I had never been a real fan of the place, but I had always paid attention to whether or not they were posted. Sorry if I got anybody's hopes up.
bc.cruiser
Regular Member
While fueling the diesel gulping beast I drive, two youths came by and asked "Is that a Colt .45?". Nope; then I explained it was a Rock Island, a much more affordable gun, but was still a .45. Then I explained the .45ACP round. Spent about 5 minutes talking with them while pumping $90 into the tank.
Nothing happening at Lowe's.
The pretty redheaded girl at Tractor Supply had questions and comments. She's two months away from being 18 when she would be able to legally carry her dad's pistol, although she really wanted one of her own. So we discussed that. She was unaware that she would be able to buy one herself in a private party sale. I let her know that she could get the PPP and have a parent buy one at a store to gift to her; it would not be a strawman sale, since she is not otherwise barred from possession.
While we were talking, two other women joined in. Both were gun owners and one said she was carrying a ".40". I think if there had been fewer people around the registers she might have shown it.
Nobody, including the Fayetteville city officer doing extra duty as store security, at Best Buy even blinked while I was in the store.
Except for the fuel bill, an enjoyable afternoon.
Nothing happening at Lowe's.
The pretty redheaded girl at Tractor Supply had questions and comments. She's two months away from being 18 when she would be able to legally carry her dad's pistol, although she really wanted one of her own. So we discussed that. She was unaware that she would be able to buy one herself in a private party sale. I let her know that she could get the PPP and have a parent buy one at a store to gift to her; it would not be a strawman sale, since she is not otherwise barred from possession.
While we were talking, two other women joined in. Both were gun owners and one said she was carrying a ".40". I think if there had been fewer people around the registers she might have shown it.
Nobody, including the Fayetteville city officer doing extra duty as store security, at Best Buy even blinked while I was in the store.
Except for the fuel bill, an enjoyable afternoon.
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