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[Bush Wacker]

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This is my first post here. I have beenenjoying this site for a couplemonths now. I belong to another forum that is obsesed with CC, and it seams to very bias on that regard, if not a bit paranoid. I livein Georgia (rural) and prefer to OC. I have not had any problems, as Iclean cut, dress well, and conduct myself in a professional manner. The biggest problem is peoplemistaking mefor a LEO. I get a lot of "How are you doing officer?"

Anyway, Why are so many peopleagainst open carry?:banghead: I find in kind of liberating! Your feedback is welcome.

 

[ixtow]

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[censored for failure to be an imperialist murderer]

 

[Dutch Uncle]

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The best place to go to find the opposing viewpoint is Packing.org. Go to the home page here to find discussions of the various pros and cons of OC.

The refrain we hear over and over again is that people who OC do so to bring attention to themselves, show off or provoke others. If this is so, I have evidently been an abject failure at the exercise. In about 2 years of OC, I have had maybe 2-3 comments of any consequence, and only one recent complaint from a mall security guard after about a dozen of us were leaving a restaurant after a 2 hour dinner. (We were invited to come back) Evidently, he noticed only my pistol, but it took him a while to realize all of us were legally carrying(!) Open carry is required in restaurants that serve alcohol, but he was upset we were carrying in the mall on our way out, despite the fact there were no signs proscribing the practice. The whole dispute was settled quickly enough, and the only person whose attitude was inappropriate was that of the officious and condescending security guard. Otherwise, no big deal!

If you prefer OC, go right ahead, though having a CCW permit is a good idea to increase your options.

 

[Bush Wacker]

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ixtow wrote:

They're usually clost-anti-gun people who think packing makes them better than you because they wen't through the process of being OKed by Big Brother, and you didn't.

Thanks... Well here in GA we have to get a CCP toOC as well. At least when you are out of your car, or off your own property. I truly beleive that is educational to OC. To make the general public aware of OUR right to bear arms. I often get asked in stores....You have a gun? Yes...Are you an officer? No......Why do you have a gun? because it is MY right! Then again the guys running these stores do not know about the rights of Americans! All they know is that they do not have to pay taxes.

 

[Bush Wacker]

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Dutch Uncle wrote:

The best place to go to find the opposing viewpoint is Packing.org. Go to the home page here to find discussions of the various pros and cons of OC.

That is the site I was referring to. They are so bias over there. I have found a new home here!

 

[HankT]

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Here's my quick 'n dirty typology of OC opponents:

CC Purists: Believe that OC has major defects, including drawing heat to CCers. CCPs think it's a zero-sum game.

Law Enforcement Old Farts: OC is just WRONG for these guys--this applies from high policy setting evel admins, down to operational levels, and finally to the star in the street. Anyone with a gun is HIGHLY suspect. LEOFs will justify almost any behavior, including illegality, to impose their values. Chronological age, BTW, is not always correlated with LEOFs (e.g., Rickey Clodfelter).

Public Business Pessimists: Retailers, service-providers, etc., dealing with the public, who feel that OC will upset customers in some way that would diminish their desire to buy things. Also, PBPs feel that OC sets up the business for a wild mall shooting of some type.

Employer Pessimists: Companies who employ workers and who feel that OC will disrupt operations in several ways and sets up the firm for the possibility of a "going postal" type event.

Insurance Actuaries: These guys are the quants and they get paid LOTS of $ to estimate the probabilities of wild mall shootings and "going postal" type events. They KNOW what the increased chances of same are. They are very seldom wrong. Actually, IAs are not against OC. They simply advise against covering OC without larger compensation to offset the increased risk.

Big City Neutered Defenders: These folks have been conditioned to expect the possibility that only criminals and LEOs are armed. BCNDs accept vulnerability and use guile and avoidance as their major defense tactics. Ironically, BCNDs almost always experience instant conversion to OC appreciation after being held at gunpoint or knife point for more than 1 second. Assuming they survive, that is.

Court System Participants: Obvious.

Anti-gunners: Obvious. They would prohibit even mentioning OC, if they could. See Brady Campaign.

Weasely Politicians: Because they are looking for votes and support from LEOFs, PBPs, EPs, BCNDs, CSPs, and Anti-gunners.

Chicen Little Newspaper Writers: "All guns are bad! We must save the PEOPLE!"

Complaint Department Managers: I don't know this is to be true. Just a hunch.

Some Holster Makers: Makers of IWB and especially ankle holsters.

 

[Citizen]

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Bush Wacker wrote:

This is my first post here. I have beenenjoying this site for a couplemonths now.

I like that. Listening to the conversation before contributing shows a certainlevel of thoughtfulness and judgement.

Welcome to OCDO!

(10, 9, 8, 7....OK, who's going to ask why I didn't/don't do that myself?)

 

[VAopencarry]

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I know the answer:

Because you don't have a "certainlevel of thoughtfulness and judgement".

Welcome to OCDO Bush Wacker!!

 

[BobCav]

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Welcome Bush Wacker... Great people here and loads of information.

 

[Citizen]

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VAopencarry wrote:

I know the answer:

Because you don't have a "certainlevel of thoughtfulness and judgement".

OUCH!

 

[Basic Guy]

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I think there is another CC type which I have mentioned before in other posts. This is the 'condition white' CC'er.

They prefer to CC because they think this allows them to go about their business in condition white, paying no attention to their surroundings. Anybody who has ever OC'ed or seriously considered doing so quickly realizes that you have to be in no less than condition yellow 100% of the time.

For those of us who are pretty much in condition yellow most of the time OC comes rather naturally.

 

[casullshooter]

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Welcome Bushwhacker , I OC commonly even though I have a CCW . I hope to get the public more used to the idea and to show LEO's that law abiding citizens can and should be trusted. Criminals will not be OCing as this would give the police and citizens the chance to be aware of their presence .

 

[Citizen]

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casullshooter wrote:

...and to show LEO's that law abiding citizens can and should be trusted.

Good point, casullshooter. That particular one had escaped me.

 

[HankT]

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Basic Guy wrote:

I think there is another CC type which I have mentioned before in other posts. This is the 'condition white' CC'er.

They prefer to CC because they think this allows them to go about their business in condition white, paying no attention to their surroundings.

What percentage of CCers would you estimate are of the 'condition white CC'er' type?

 

[Basic Guy]

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HankT wrote:

Basic Guy wrote:

I think there is another CC type which I have mentioned before in other posts. This is the 'condition white' CC'er.

They prefer to CC because they think this allows them to go about their business in condition white, paying no attention to their surroundings.

What percentage of CCers would you estimate are of the 'condition white CC'er' type?

This is just a guess based on the way people respond to certain questions on Packing.org and other handgun specific sites - but I would say something like 20 to 30% of CC'ers are running around in condition white most of the time and maybe 50 to 60% do this a lot.

I've read too many posts on these other sites where the writer was surprized by some thing or some person - which I felt most people would have noticed if they were keeping their mind on their surroundings.

 

[HankT]

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Basic Guy wrote:

HankT wrote:

Basic Guy wrote:

I think there is another CC type which I have mentioned before in other posts. This is the 'condition white' CC'er.

They prefer to CC because they think this allows them to go about their business in condition white, paying no attention to their surroundings.

What percentage of CCers would you estimate are of the 'condition white CC'er' type?

This is just a guess based on the way people respond to certain questions on Packing.org and other handgun specific sites - but I would say something like 20 to 30% of CC'ers are running around in condition white most of the time and maybe 50 to 60% do this a lot.

I've read too many posts on these other sites where the writer was surprized by some thing or some person - which I felt most people would have noticed if they were keeping their mind on their surroundings.

Well, that's an interesting estimate. You're saying that on any givenday that a million or more CCers are walking around in condition white. Do you feelcomfortable with that degree of whiteness of the CCer collective? Could you be over-stating it?

Also, what relevance does the whiteness of the CCer collective have to theOCadvocacy movement anyway?

 

[Basic Guy]

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Yup - I could easily be overstating it. This is just a hunch I get from the types of input I see inCC oriented gun websites. It could that this type is not as prevalent but simply more vocal. As an example - on one of those sites I mentioned a few things I do to practice my detection and targeting abilities and get a number of replies to the effect that I am trying to be some kind of 'Jack Bauer'.

I see it as a bit of a division in the ranks of people who believe in guns for self protection. This type of CC'er - from my reading of their attitude - seems to think that OC is a bad idea period. They like the idea that they 'don't have to' change anything about how they operate day-to-day. The idea that some number of us see it as necessary to always be vigilant challenges their approach to self defense. Their negative reactions to OC seem to show this attitude.

Since anybody who CC's while in condition white is obviously relying on his ability to react to the unexpected without much 'warning' they are more likely to end up making a quick and dirty decision when it comes time to draw. This is more likely to lead to bad decisions which will reflect poorly on all of us - both CC and OC.

 

[BobCav]

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Funny thing is that LONG before I ever carried, I was always in at least Condition Yellow and never knew it. Now that I OC, I'm much more situationally aware and a good visible example of a responsible law abiding citizen.

 

[Tess]

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Bush Wacker wrote:

Thanks... Well here in GA we have to get a CCP toOC as well. At least when you are out of your car, or off your own property. I truly beleive that is educational to OC. To make the general public aware of OUR right to bear arms. I often get asked in stores....You have a gun? Yes...Are you an officer? No......Why do you have a gun? because it is MY right! Then again the guys running these stores do not know about the rights of Americans! All they know is that they do not have to pay taxes.

There was another thread - I can't find it now - about answers to "why do you carry a gun".

I used to say "Because I can't carry a cop." That generally got some discussion going.

Lately, I ask "Have you ever been raped at knifepoint?" When they get eyes as wide as saucers, or say "no" - I say "I have. ONCE. Never again." While it usually goes a long way toward getting them to concede my point, it doesn't leave as much room for conversation.

 

[HankT]

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Tess wrote:

There was another thread - I can't find it now - about answers to "why do you carry a gun".

I used to say "Because I can't carry a cop." That generally got some discussion going.

Lately, I ask "Have you ever been raped at knifepoint?" When they get eyes as wide as saucers, or say "no" - I say "I have. ONCE. Never again." While it usually goes a long way toward getting them to concede my point, it doesn't leave as much room for conversation.

Wow. That's afinisher line. :shock:

I think all women should get a pistolat age 21 or when they get engaged, whichever comes first. I read just the other day that around 40% of women murdered in this country are done in by boyfriend, husband or male acquaintance family member.