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No guns sign, Madisonville, Hopkins county clerk building

Bill Starks

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Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,306
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
clerks office.jpgThis building is a block away from the court house and is the office that issues license plates. Today upon arrival there is now a no guns sticker on the door glass.
I've been out of the process for a while if I remember correctly 1) they are not a court house and 2) they can't regulate open carry.
Gutshot or BB62 do we have a form letter I can build from to send to the county attorney?
 
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color of law

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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
View attachment 13502This building is a block away from the court house and is the office that issues license plates. Today upon arrival there is now a no guns sticker on the door glass.
I've been out of the process for a while if I remember correctly 1) they are not a court house and 2) they can't regulate open carry.
Gutshot or BB62 do we have a form letter I can build from to send to the county attorney?
PM gutshot II. He is actively pursuing the removal of these signs.
 

gutshot II

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Messages
555
Location
Central Ky.
View attachment 13502This building is a block away from the court house and is the office that issues license plates. Today upon arrival there is now a no guns sticker on the door glass.
I've been out of the process for a while if I remember correctly 1) they are not a court house and 2) they can't regulate open carry.
Gutshot or BB62 do we have a form letter I can build from to send to the county attorney?
I don't know of anybody that ever typed up a form letter. IMO these things are are all different and demand individual tactics. Very simply, that is a violation of KRS 65.870. Here is a link to the statute:
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/statute.aspx?id=40556

That building is not a courthouse. They can't regulate open carry and they can't regulate concealed carry unless the Fiscal Court has passed the required ordinance. I don't know if Hopkins Co. has such an ordinance, but I would be very surprised if they did.

I'd say the place to start is with the County Clerk, herself, and I'd expect it to be a 10 min. job. Sometimes, I am surprised and it turns into a struggle, but not often. Even Louisvile and Lexington took their signs down. If it was me and I lived there, I'd go into the office personally and ask to speak with the clerk(Ms. Keenan Cloern) and show her the statute. If you don't have time for that, an email or a phone call is next best. Just call and ask for the Clerk by name and tell them they are breaking the law. I'd be sure to tell them that who ever was involved in putting that sign up or enforcing it had committed a criminal act and could be prosecuted. I like emails better because they can actually see the statute in black and white, if you include a link to the statute. County Attorney would be next in line. If you get any resistence, the next place would be the County Judge/Exe. Good luck with it, Bill.
 

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,306
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
I don't know of anybody that ever typed up a form letter. IMO these things are are all different and demand individual tactics. Very simply, that is a violation of KRS 65.870. Here is a link to the statute:
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/statute.aspx?id=40556

I like emails better because they can actually see the statute in black and white,
I don't drive or get out much anymore so I sat down and wrote an email and after several drafts I finally came up with something short and to the point with the relevant KRS and the AG opinion on Davis county from 1996. The email system for the county clerk was not working, neither was the county attorney so I sent it to the Fiscal Court. They meet in 2 weeks, so if I don't get an answer I will address it in person.

Thanks
 

gutshot II

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Location
Central Ky.
I don't drive or get out much anymore so I sat down and wrote an email and after several drafts I finally came up with something short and to the point with the relevant KRS and the AG opinion on Davis county from 1996. The email system for the county clerk was not working, neither was the county attorney so I sent it to the Fiscal Court. They meet in 2 weeks, so if I don't get an answer I will address it in person.

Thanks

So true. Most people think that I (and they) can just sit down and compose an email to fix one of these things in five mins. It takes me hours and sometimes days of witing and revision to get something that I think is worth sending and is a good expression of my thoughts and the relevant statutes. If you sound like some conspiracy theorist or militant wacko your message won't receive much attention. You need to sound confident, thoughtful and knowledgeable about the law, with just a touch of appropriate outrage. I often overdo it on the outrage and just put the message aside and come back to it the next day with a new perspective and redo it from the start.
 

Bill Starks

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Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,306
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
Sunday night the County Clerk sent me a private message on Facebook messenger about the issue. Evidently I stirred the election pot with a comment to friends about her being anti gun with the posted sign. She told me that we will have a face to face this week about the issue and that the sign was put up in haste by an employee on her approval after an issue with a customer. She said she should have consulted the County Attorney first and assured me that she is not antigun. I filled her in on the relevant KRS's and gave her a copy of the email I sent to the Fiscal Court that had the KRS info and the Atty Generals opinion from 1996.
I still plan on attending the meeting on the 22nd to address the issue and make sure that there are no other signs lurking elsewhere in the county.


FYI - 2 years ago I got the Sheriff to remove the "No Guns" sign at the sheriff station after a 5 minute conversation at a local Rural King supply.
 

color of law

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Sunday night the County Clerk sent me a private message on Facebook messenger about the issue. Evidently I stirred the election pot with a comment to friends about her being anti gun with the posted sign. She told me that we will have a face to face this week about the issue and that the sign was put up in haste by an employee on her approval after an issue with a customer. She said she should have consulted the County Attorney first and assured me that she is not antigun. I filled her in on the relevant KRS's and gave her a copy of the email I sent to the Fiscal Court that had the KRS info and the Atty Generals opinion from 1996.
I still plan on attending the meeting on the 22nd to address the issue and make sure that there are no other signs lurking elsewhere in the county.


FYI - 2 years ago I got the Sheriff to remove the "No Guns" sign at the sheriff station after a 5 minute conversation at a local Rural King supply.
Excellent.
 

solus

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here nc
Sunday night the County Clerk sent me a private message on Facebook messenger about the issue. Evidently I stirred the election pot with a comment to friends about her being anti gun with the posted sign. She told me that we will have a face to face this week about the issue and that the sign was put up in haste by an employee on her approval after an issue with a customer. She said she should have consulted the County Attorney first and assured me that she is not antigun. I filled her in on the relevant KRS's and gave her a copy of the email I sent to the Fiscal Court that had the KRS info and the Atty Generals opinion from 1996.
I still plan on attending the meeting on the 22nd to address the issue and make sure that there are no other signs lurking elsewhere in the county.


FYI - 2 years ago I got the Sheriff to remove the "No Guns" sign at the sheriff station after a 5 minute conversation at a local Rural King supply.
Of course the sign was put up in haste ~ with their approval; of course they should’ve consulted ~ but didnt; and of course, please, oh please believe their assurances they are not anti ~ ask them in this election year.

me thinks that ham sandwich in KY seems to be rotten & a bit moldy.

However, being of critical mind...doesn’t anybody else, besides me of course, think it a bit strange that after ‘an issue with a customer’ an order went out to a subordinate to post an illegal ‘no gun’ sign on the facility?

BTW Bill good job!
 
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gutshot II

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Central Ky.
Sunday night the County Clerk sent me a private message on Facebook messenger about the issue. Evidently I stirred the election pot with a comment to friends about her being anti gun with the posted sign. She told me that we will have a face to face this week about the issue and that the sign was put up in haste by an employee on her approval after an issue with a customer. She said she should have consulted the County Attorney first and assured me that she is not antigun. I filled her in on the relevant KRS's and gave her a copy of the email I sent to the Fiscal Court that had the KRS info and the Atty Generals opinion from 1996.
I still plan on attending the meeting on the 22nd to address the issue and make sure that there are no other signs lurking elsewhere in the county.


FYI - 2 years ago I got the Sheriff to remove the "No Guns" sign at the sheriff station after a 5 minute conversation at a local Rural King supply.
Well, it sounds like you certainly got her attention. What is the purpose of this face to face meeting this week? why does she not just take the sign down as required by law and be done with it? what is there to discuss? She's breaking the law!

If she is not "anti gun" why is the sign not already down? or is the purpose of the meeting to explain to you about the "issue with a customer" and that the customer's behaviour was so bad that she must now keep the sign up, even if that is illegal(surely you understand)? If she has people that are causing "issues" in her office, why does she not call the Sheriff instead of joining in with her customer and becoming a criminal herself? Her crime is probably more serious than the "issue" caused by the customer.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
Meet her since you agreed to. This is the polite thing to do. Hindsight and all...stick to correspondence and do not meet. A documented record is hard to brush aside.

Example conversation:
Not anti-2A? Really? Prove it, take the signs down now!...I'll check your work tomorrow. - R/ Bill Starks
Good luck.
 

Bill Starks

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Joined
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Nortonville, KY, USA
Sign has been removed but I still haven't received an email from the fiscal court or her. However I'll take the sign being remove as a sign of progress.
no sign.jpg
 

gutshot II

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Location
Central Ky.
Sign has been removed but I still haven't received an email from the fiscal court or her. However I'll take the sign being remove as a sign of progress.
View attachment 13505

Progress indeed! This was the objective, wasn't it? This is now a success. I don't know what else is to be expected. You can't change how these people think. We can control their actions. Meetings, discussions, hand shakes, hugs; all BS. What is to be gained by any of that. Them trying to tell you that they are not what they have demonstrated that they really are? You made them comply with the law and respect people's rights. That is the big thing. That is what you set out to do. Mission accomplished. Now, go find another one, and do it. If you run out of places, go to the next county and check them. You're on a roll, don't stop with just one.

When you have people in office like this, there will be more places where they can't stop themselves from restricting people's rights and freedom. I'd check for signs at the parks, the county health dept., library, PVA, County Extension District, etc.
I'd file open records requests for any anti-gun policies with the city/county water company, public electric utility, publicly owned meeting centers(community centers, etc.) and any other place these bolshevic's can slither their way into control of other people. I predict you'll find places where they know that the law says they can't restrict guns, but you'll find people in charge that will say, "Yeah, but we don't really want that here, do we?" Well, yes, we do want that here. It's called freedom and we want all we can get. Once again, great job Bill.
 
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color of law

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Governments have no conscience. Government only has force. All those people working in that building took an oath to support the constitution and the laws of the state. Any employee not complying with the Constitution and laws of the state are lawbreakers.
 

gutshot II

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Governments have no conscience. Government only has force. All those people working in that building took an oath to support the constitution and the laws of the state. Any employee not complying with the Constitution and laws of the state are lawbreakers.

True, true, true, and those lawbreakers need to be challenged at every turn until they slither away, until they know we won't allow their version of freedom anywhere in this country.
 

gutshot II

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and one month from elections.... I sure this did not help her cause for those who forwarded my Facebook comments.

And that is why she wants a face to face with you. She wants to convince you to rescind all of those posts you made and reassure everybody that she is a great, gun loving gal. Its not to do anything good for you, just get you to help her. If she loses thgis county gig, she might have to go out and find ajob that actually requires some work. That can be pretty tough for a woman in Hopkins Co., Ky.
 
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color of law

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And that is why she wants a face to face with you. She wants to convince you to rescind all of those posts you made and reassure everybody that she is a great, gun loving gal. Its not to do anything good for you, just get you to help her. If she loses thgis county gig, she might have to go out and find ajob that actually requires some work. That can be pretty tough for a woman in Hopkins Co., Ky.
WOW - that kind of talk will get ANTIFA showing-up at you door.



Bring them on......
 

gutshot II

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WOW - that kind of talk will get ANTIFA showing-up at you door.

Bring them on......
ANTIFA!?, in my home county? Ha, ha, ha. You'd have to take them to the funeral home with a shovel, if you could find enough to fit in a shovel, if you could find anybody that would take the shovel. We're having an election here, too. One of the open seats is County Sheriff. When can you arrange for them to be here? They would soon learn that they had come light years away from Louisville Metro.
 

BB62

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I'm glad this issue got addressed on the forum and "on the ground", as I haven't been on OCDO for over two weeks.

Of course the irascible ;) gutshot II remains "the Man"!
 
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