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North Carolina Flyer

dmatting

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May 25, 2011
Messages
441
Location
Durham, NC
good job on getting the flyer and information onto the site...

however, not to be thought a 'johnny come lately' but in the para titled: 'so i can just carry it openly' we are presented with an opportunity to make a comment about adding something about 'those eighteen and over can open carry'. this could go a long way to clarify the OC question raised by those young adults who want to OC but get incorrect information from uninformed individuals, such as parents, LE, etc.

and a editoral nit...might read the document and unify the term firearm throughout the document against the term weapon except where it specifically addresses those statutes using the term 'weapon'

ipse
Thanks for the input, I've made changes to the flyer using these suggestions.

The flyer has been updated once again. The new revision date is now 10/6/2013. See the first post in this thread for the proper link.
 

VicBerg

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Sep 20, 2014
Messages
11
I might be showing how new to this whole thing I truely am, but if North Carolina State law says it is legal to open carry at certain places and conceal carry at certain places, does that not trump city ordinance/county regulations?

I'm not asking so I can go there and cause a scene because I refuse to be one of the people that gives law abiding gun owners a bad name (especially since I've only been one for a short time). I am just curious and wish to educate myself as much as possible.
 

dmatting

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441
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Durham, NC
I might be showing how new to this whole thing I truely am, but if North Carolina State law says it is legal to open carry at certain places and conceal carry at certain places, does that not trump city ordinance/county regulations?

I'm not asking so I can go there and cause a scene because I refuse to be one of the people that gives law abiding gun owners a bad name (especially since I've only been one for a short time). I am just curious and wish to educate myself as much as possible.
There really isn't a law that states that you can open carry. OC is a Right protected by thr NC constitution. Technically, that is law, but it doesn't really say go forth and OC. It does, however, give the state legislature the right to regulate or even outright ban CC, which is to imply that the Right is OC.

State law has pre-emption which dictates to the cities and counties what they may prohibit (firing a gun unless doing so to protect oneself) and what they may regulate (display of a handgun). Chapel Hill understands the limitation and regulates the size of the handgun one may carry openly. Durham, however, has exceeded this limitation and went to prohibition.

The problem is that a Durham cop will arrest you and you will very likely be found guilty. Your only recourse at that point is to appeal - which would likely result in the overturning of the ordinance but at what cost to you? These petty little dictators know the game they are playing.
 

carolina guy

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Jun 21, 2012
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Concord, NC
There really isn't a law that states that you can open carry. OC is a Right protected by thr NC constitution. Technically, that is law, but it doesn't really say go forth and OC. It does, however, give the state legislature the right to regulate or even outright ban CC, which is to imply that the Right is OC.

State law has pre-emption which dictates to the cities and counties what they may prohibit (firing a gun unless doing so to protect oneself) and what they may regulate (display of a handgun). Chapel Hill understands the limitation and regulates the size of the handgun one may carry openly. Durham, however, has exceeded this limitation and went to prohibition.

The problem is that a Durham cop will arrest you and you will very likely be found guilty. Your only recourse at that point is to appeal - which would likely result in the overturning of the ordinance but at what cost to you? These petty little dictators know the game they are playing.
Makes me wonder if the commissioners/council members were notified directly and individually if they have any actual individual civil suit immunity for their violation of state laws in their choice of ordinances they pass and defend...:confused:
 
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est1988

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Nov 19, 2014
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Wilmywood
Been passing these out lately, I wasnt too suprised that people were unaware of the laws and their rights

♤♡♢♧
 

dmatting

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Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
441
Location
Durham, NC
So I am looking to edit the OC flyer once again. There hasn't been any legislation that would require this, but there are some changes that need to be made for accuracy.

First, in the section titled "Places Where Firearms Are Prohibited", the GS site for item 5, State Parks, isn't complete. It should read "15A NCAC 12B.0901(a)." Kind of makes it difficult to find the rule if the cite is lacking. Thanks to bc.cruiser for noticing this.

Second, the footnote for the Durham City Ordinance is outdated. Sec 46-23 was repealed. I need to replace it with a reference to Sec 46-22 which still is a prohibition on OC - but instead of in any "public place" it is on city owned property - which includes streets and sidewalks. (As a side note, this ordinance is BS but it is currently codified, so it needs to be included)

I will add a line item or two to the "Places Where Firearms Are Prohibited" section to include the State Capital Building, the Executive Mansion, the Western Residence of the Governor, or the grounds of these buildings and also any building housing any court of the General Court of Justice. (GS 14-269.4)

This is something I would appreciate some comments on:
I have been wondering if I should remove items 7 and 8 under the "Places Where Firearms Are Prohibited" section. Both of these reference GS 14-415(c) which is specifically targeted to those places where concealed carry is prohibited. I do not know of general statutes that mention these locations specifically referencing open carry or including it.

Finally, if anyone has any ideas or suggestions for new or more information to be added to the flyer, please let me know. I have a tiny bit of space that is blank.

Thanks!
 

dmatting

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Location
Durham, NC
After 2 years, I finally updated the flyer. The list of changes are on the first post to this thread.
 

solus

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here nc
After 2 years, I finally updated the flyer. The list of changes are on the first post to this thread.
thanks good job dmatting...a few concepts to enhance your workmanship and provide added clarity for those newbies and olde pharts who might still believe firearms are off limits in financial institutions:

#3: instead of the term ‘schools’ the term from the statute is ‘educational property'
§ 14-269.2. Weapons on campus or other educational property.
Educational property. Any school building or bus, school campus, grounds, recreational area, athletic field, or other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education or school board of trustees, or directors for the administration of any school.

#4: statement of general ‘demonstration is not correct since is explicitly stated upon any…
§ 14-277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon.

#5: 15A NCAC 12B .0901FIREARMS: WEAPONS: EXPLOSIVES
state parks exempted to the best of my knowledge in 2015 through § 14-409.40. Statewide uniformity of local regulation as well as evidenced in § 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
(c1) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun on the grounds or waters of a park within the State Parks System as defined in G.S. 143B-135.44.
(c3) As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation. again, the premise is if CHP is authorized with no mention of open carry then open is authorized.

#6: 18 USC 922 is quite broad and covers a myriad of material, consider providing examples, such as schools, post offices, etc.

#7: the premise is if CHP is authorized with no mention of open carry then open is authorized.
§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
(5) In a law enforcement or correctional facility.

# 8: the premise is if CHP is authorized with no mention of open carry then open is authorized.
§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
(d) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
(6) In a building housing only State or federal offices.

Additionally, is a specific comment regarding the gray OC’g area of:
§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
add an additional #(9) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

ipse
 
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dmatting

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
441
Location
Durham, NC
#3: instead of the term ‘schools’ the term from the statute is ‘educational property'
§ 14-269.2. Weapons on campus or other educational property.
Educational property. Any school building or bus, school campus, grounds, recreational area, athletic field, or other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education or school board of trustees, or directors for the administration of any school.
Yes, changed

#4: statement of general ‘demonstration is not correct since is explicitly stated upon any…
§ 14-277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon.
Yes, bullet point modified

#5: 15A NCAC 12B .0901FIREARMS: WEAPONS: EXPLOSIVES
state parks exempted to the best of my knowledge in 2015 through § 14-409.40. Statewide uniformity of local regulation as well as evidenced in § 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
(c1) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun on the grounds or waters of a park within the State Parks System as defined in G.S. 143B-135.44.
(c3) As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation. again, the premise is if CHP is authorized with no mention of open carry then open is authorized.
It is illegal to open carry in state parks. no change

#6: 18 USC 922 is quite broad and covers a myriad of material, consider providing examples, such as schools, post offices, etc.
This bullet was actually a holdover from Dreamer's original OC flyer. I guess I never really looked at the code. So, I just did and didn't find anything in Sec 922 except for school zones. Sec 930 has the restriction, so I'll change the bullet and the reference.

#7: the premise is if CHP is authorized with no mention of open carry then open is authorized.
§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
(5) In a law enforcement or correctional facility.

# 8: the premise is if CHP is authorized with no mention of open carry then open is authorized.
§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
(d) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
(6) In a building housing only State or federal offices.
I had asked about 7 and 8 a few years ago but didn't get any responses. I have since OCd in a police station without a word said and both the bullets refer to CC laws, so I'll get rid of them and replace them with what is in 14-269.4

Additionally, is a specific comment regarding the gray OC’g area of:
§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
add an additional #(9) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.
That is CC specific, so I won't be adding this.
 

solus

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Additionally, is a specific comment regarding the gray OC’g area of:
§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
add an additional #(9) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

if this is as CC specific as you state, with absolutely no mention in the statutes regarding OPEN Carry, then it is OC specific and should be used to clarify for those citizens who wish to OC and if nothing else mention the gun busters are are not binding on OC'rs. of course the mention of trespass by the owner or individual in charge of the property is prudent.

as for the state parks i presume you discounted the cite regarding 14-409.40 & 14-415.11 & 143B-135.44.which states CC'rs can carry in the state parks and waterways ~ f they they are afforded that opportunity and the statutes do no specifically call out OC is prohibited, then unequivocally OC''rs are also allowed.

ipse
 

dmatting

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
441
Location
Durham, NC
Additionally, is a specific comment regarding the gray OC’g area of:
§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
add an additional #(9) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

if this is as CC specific as you state, with absolutely no mention in the statutes regarding OPEN Carry, then it is OC specific and should be used to clarify for those citizens who wish to OC and if nothing else mention the gun busters are are not binding on OC'rs. of course the mention of trespass by the owner or individual in charge of the property is prudent.

as for the state parks i presume you discounted the cite regarding 14-409.40 & 14-415.11 & 143B-135.44.which states CC'rs can carry in the state parks and waterways ~ f they they are afforded that opportunity and the statutes do no specifically call out OC is prohibited, then unequivocally OC''rs are also allowed.

ipse
The list that is on the flyer is for places that are illegal to openly carry a firearm - meaning if you do it, you can face charges. GS 14-415.11 is about the scope of the CHP. A notice is only legally binding to those who are CCing.

OC is currently 'Against the Rules' at State Parks and breaking of those rules can result in a Class 3 misdemeanor. I say 'Against the Rules' because it is not codified, but the legislature gave the Parks and Recreation Department the authority to make 'reasonable' rules governing the State Parks - and carrying and possession of firearms is against those rules unless you have a CHP and are concealing a pistol. Now, whether or not the rules are reasonable is not in debate here - the flyer is simply stating what is currently allowed and what is not. The rule is cited in the flyer (15A NCAC 12B .901(a)). The authority for these rules is given through GS143B-135.16 (used to be GS113-35). I'll make it easy and give you the link the rules... https://www.ncparks.gov/sites/default/files/ncparks/37/15A_NCAC_12B-DPR_Rules_January_2014.pdf
 

dmatting

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Durham, NC
I don't know how the state parks OC ban flies in the face of Kerner. I don't see any support though to change it.
I don't see how it passes any kind of legal test, seeing as it is a rule written by some committee that wasn't voted in by and does not represent the people of NC and it clearly infringes on the right to keep and bear arms.
 

solus

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I don't know how the state parks OC ban flies in the face of Kerner. I don't see any support though to change it.
i wasn't aware it was on the books per se..

i guess, since session is over, something to bring up...

ipse
 

dmatting

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Durham, NC
i wasn't aware it was on the books per se..

i guess, since session is over, something to bring up...

ipse
The entire issue of carrying in parks is a complete PITA.

You can OC in national parks - but not in the buildings at those parks.
If I recall correctly, the Corps of Engineers prohibits both OC and CC on 'their' land
You cannot OC in state parks but you can CC with a CHP.
And then there are the gamelands and the rules set up by the NCWRC.

Its a complete mess and the worst part of it is that in some places you can cross over from state park to national park to corps of engineers land and to gamelands, etc.
 

solus

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The list that is on the flyer is for places that are illegal to openly carry a firearm - meaning if you do it, you can face charges. GS 14-415.11 is about the scope of the CHP. A notice is only legally binding to those who are CCing.

OC is currently 'Against the Rules' at State Parks and breaking of those rules can result in a Class 3 misdemeanor. I say 'Against the Rules' because it is not codified, but the legislature gave the Parks and Recreation Department the authority to make 'reasonable' rules governing the State Parks - and carrying and possession of firearms is against those rules unless you have a CHP and are concealing a pistol. Now, whether or not the rules are reasonable is not in debate here - the flyer is simply stating what is currently allowed and what is not. The rule is cited in the flyer (15A NCAC 12B .901(a)). The authority for these rules is given through GS143B-135.16 (used to be GS113-35). I'll make it easy and give you the link the rules... https://www.ncparks.gov/sites/default/files/ncparks/37/15A_NCAC_12B-DPR_Rules_January_2014.pdf
yes yes, take a breath and look at the bottom of xxx.901 when the silly crap was initally established,

Eff. February 1, 1976; Amended Eff. October 1, 1984; January 1, 1983;
Temporary Amendment Eff. July 2, 1997;


Temporary Amendment Expired September 29, 1998;Amended Eff. January 1, 2014; April 1, 1999.
the state had barely entered our CC infancy period!

as stated 2015's codified legislation on state exemption, coupled with the statues which state CC'rs can carry in state parks and on waterways is ample proof someone just failed to heed the statutory guidance.

finally, GS143B-135.16 states the Department shall make reasonable rules, this is not a reasonable rule as it volates other state statutes.

by the way, knock off the condescending attitude, not needed, nor appreciated!

as for the no gun signage...how many newbies know they do not carry the weight of law, how many know the clerk cannot trespass them, as stated a clarifying comment regarding them might just be helpful?

ipse

tomorrow an email to parks director, legislative reps, governor, and AG will be sent.

not like this needs do be done day after tomorrow
 
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