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Open Carry in Practice: Who's done it? | Vigilance Elite

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,177
Location
Kentucky
"My wife was raised in El Paso. Small world " -- Ghost1958
Interesting...what part?
As for Walmart (et al), I usually stop and talk to these security people and none seem to be anti-OC or anti-armed citizen, but just doing their job as told -- Walmart's instructions to them are not to let OCers into the store. If they won't leave when told by security they can't enter, it's a "trespassing" charge. And if you're dealing with a CITY cop (EPPD), you're not going to win any "debate" -- you'll get arrested. No thanks (if you don't mind). So you can see why I won't "push the envelope" here in El Paso in those particular stores.
But I don't know how the REST of TX is as it may be different (it's a HUGE state and ELP is in the far West corner, so it may just be ELP (given that Walmart shooting happened here) and not ALL of TX. Don't know, but Walmart announced they didn't want ("respectfully requested") OC in their stores, and didn't say that ONLY applied to ELP -- it seemed to be be national/corporate policy.
I'll see what the "Walmart" (and supermarkets, as mentioned) situation is like in CO when I get back.
I DO OC everywhere else I can here though -- as per usual.
>> BTW, in my previous post, for some reason I was thinking you were in CO (instead of KY), and so YOU were OCing in CO stores with "no incident." It was "MrRight" who was OCing in CO.
Sorry for the mix-up...I tend to do that occasionally.
Finally, yes, Texas IS a different animal (a horse of another color?), and not as "gun friendly" as people in other states often believe/expect of TX. It's a backwards state when it comes to the RKBA: We need a permit (permission!) not only to CC but to OC also. No permit, NO CARRY!
Note: I'm talking about carrying HANDGUNS -- long guns have always been legal to OC in TX without a permit.
She was born in Lorain, lived in Midland for little while, the family moved to EP

I dont remember exactly the part of town but it was in the projects.
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,870
Location
El Paso, TX
I'm to old to do a reboot. Cumming up on 45 years.
...I may be too old for a FIRST, let alone a "reboot." ;-)
But at least some good news presently: Awaiting the arrival of a "replacement" for my current OC gun...then will have to go out in the desert (don't like/go to ranges) and (of course!) make sure it works BEFORE carrying it. I'm sure it will regardless, but you never know...
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
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Aug 7, 2007
Messages
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Location
Granite State of Mind
Same with Albertsons here (actually, it was their owner Kroger) who followed Walmart's lead
( . . . . )
Further, you have Albertsons, King Soopers (Kroger-owned) and Safeway (Albertsons-owned) there
Safeway is owned by Albertsons, but Albertsons is not owned by Kroger.

Albertsons and all their banners (Safeway, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Amigos, Vons, Shaws/Star Market, and others) are privately held. It is the third largest grocery company behind Walmart and Kroger, and the largest that is privately held.

Their "request" that customers not OC was just that. It was not a policy change, and customers won't be approached or asked to leave for OCing unless they're being a problem in some other way.
 

cloudcroft

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Messages
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Location
El Paso, TX
Yes, that's what I meant: King Soopers (not Albertsons) is Kroger-owned as otherwise I would have written "Albertsons, King Soopers (both Kroger owned)..."
As for their "requesting" vs. an official policy change, I took it as de facto policy...or maybe this article (below) is using "policy" loosely. Or maybe we are using it differently. Whatever, some excerpts from a September newspaper article (between the 2 lines of asterisks):
*************************
Kroger CEO Rodney McMullen: Why we changed our gun policy
Alexander Coolidge
Cincinnati Enquirer (9-9-18)
"Kroger CEO Rodney McMullen told The Enquirer Thursday that he believes most gun owners will respect the retailer's request to not openly carry guns in stores.
Asked if making a request would do most of the work getting Kroger the result it wanted, he replied: "The feedback says it does."
Kroger officials say they're working out the details of how to enact their new gun policy and looking at "best practices" by other retailers.
...
McMullen said Kroger is following the example of Starbucks and other retailers that in recent years have made similar requests of customers and agreed it effectively functions as a ban on open carry without being too heavy-handed.
"We're asking customers rather than a flat out ban," McMullen said.
...
They have not said how they will respond to customers who ignore Kroger's request not to openly carry a firearm. They have also not figured out what a customer should do if they see another shopper with a gun."
-- https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/09/05/kroger-ceo-explains-why-retailer-changed-its-gun-policy/2221513001/
***********************
...sounds like a half-baked "policy" as they're "not sure" about some things! I'd guess Albertsons' thinking would be along the very same lines as Kroger's.
Whatever, I don't know if OCing there (@ stores here in ELP at least) anyway would or would not be counter-productive. As I said, here we have armed security at some stores, and THEY will not allow OCers to "ignore the request." Maybe I'll find stores in CO more "gun friendly" but won't know until I'm back. But for sure they're (Walmarts/MWNs/Albertsons) not "gun friendly" here in ELP. And, I don't want to cause an "incident" that may cause these stores to escalate and "go official ban" and put up 30.07 AND 30.06 signs (Texas Laws banning OCing and CCing on a premises, respectively)...and maybe put similar signs in other states as well (as per the laws of those states).
Still, I continue to OC everywhere else I can...
 
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color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,097
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Yes, that's what I meant: King Soopers (not Albertsons) is Kroger-owned as otherwise I would have written "Albertsons, King Soopers (both Kroger owned)..."
As for their "requesting" vs. an official policy change, I took it as de facto policy...or maybe this article (below) is using "policy" loosely. Or maybe we are using it differently. Whatever, some excerpts from a September newspaper article (between the 2 lines of asterisks):
*************************
Kroger CEO Rodney McMullen: Why we changed our gun policy
Alexander Coolidge
Cincinnati Enquirer (9-9-18)
"Kroger CEO Rodney McMullen told The Enquirer Thursday that he believes most gun owners will respect the retailer's request to not openly carry guns in stores.
Asked if making a request would do most of the work getting Kroger the result it wanted, he replied: "The feedback says it does."
Kroger officials say they're working out the details of how to enact their new gun policy and looking at "best practices" by other retailers.
...
McMullen said Kroger is following the example of Starbucks and other retailers that in recent years have made similar requests of customers and agreed it effectively functions as a ban on open carry without being too heavy-handed.
"We're asking customers rather than a flat out ban," McMullen said.
...
They have not said how they will respond to customers who ignore Kroger's request not to openly carry a firearm. They have also not figured out what a customer should do if they see another shopper with a gun."
-- https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/09/05/kroger-ceo-explains-why-retailer-changed-its-gun-policy/2221513001/
***********************
...sounds like a half-baked "policy" as they're "not sure" about some things! I'd guess Albertsons' thinking would be along the very same lines as Kroger's.
Whatever, I don't know if OCing there (@ stores here in ELP at least) anyway would or would not be counter-productive. As I said, here we have armed security at some stores, and THEY will not allow OCers to "ignore the request." Maybe I'll find stores in CO more "gun friendly" but won't know until I'm back. But for sure they're (Walmarts/MWNs/Albertsons) not "gun friendly" here in ELP. And, I don't want to cause an "incident" that may cause these stores to escalate and "go official ban" and put up 30.07 AND 30.06 signs (Texas Laws banning OCing and CCing on a premises, respectively)...and maybe put similar signs in other states as well (as per the laws of those states).
Still, I continue to OC everywhere else I can...
Look, Kroger does not have any policy, written or otherwise, that they honor. They do NOT train their employees as to company policy. Managers are free to make-up policy as they see fit. I would never step foot in a Kroger store, ever. Each store is an independent company not owned by corporate as such. It is very hard to sue Kroger because it is almost impossible to figure out who to sue. Even departments within their stores are independently owned, down to the building and parking-lots.
 

carthoris5

New member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1
As far as carry in CO goes, every time I open carried in a King Soopers in CO Springs or Denver (before their OC ban), security would follow me through the store, just in case. I now live in MT and OC in every store I go to... including Albertsons, PetSmart Super 1, Target, and Scheels; not only has no one bat an eye, my gun has been a (positive) conversation starter in most of these places.

I do have a friend who works in the local WalMart who told me that they had been trained by management to ask any OC'er to leave after the store's policy changed. To be fair, it could just be that store as MT barely qualifies as a gun friendly state.
 

KBCraig

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Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,722
Location
Granite State of Mind
Yes, that's what I meant: King Soopers (not Albertsons) is Kroger-owned as otherwise I would have written "Albertsons, King Soopers (both Kroger owned)..."
Okay, but please understand how I took what you wrote: "Same with Albertsons here (actually, it was their owner Kroger) who followed Walmart's lead..."

That surely reads like you were saying that Albertsons is owned by Kroger. Simple slip of the keyboard, I'm sure. We've all done it. No harm, no foul, I was just trying to clarify who owns what.
 

mnrobitaille

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
294
Location
Kahlotus, WA
As far as carry in CO goes, every time I open carried in a King Soopers in CO Springs or Denver (before their OC ban), security would follow me through the store, just in case. I now live in MT and OC in every store I go to... including Albertsons, PetSmart Super 1, Target, and Scheels; not only has no one bat an eye, my gun has been a (positive) conversation starter in most of these places.

I do have a friend who works in the local WalMart who told me that they had been trained by management to ask any OC'er to leave after the store's policy changed. To be fair, it could just be that store as MT barely qualifies as a gun friendly state.
The policy from WalMart Home Office is that they'd prefer no one OC in the stores, however it's up to store-level management to make that decision if to allow or not.
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,870
Location
El Paso, TX
KBCraig
Yes, you are 100% correct: As seen in your citation, I clearly DID say Kroger owned Albertsons (error), even though I DO know it doesn't, and in that other instance *I* cited I meant it doesn't (fact).
Sometimes I write as "well" as I read: Meaning, I often scan something instead of reading it carefully, and then not checking for "continuity" in my response (or even accuracy on occasion). I mostly struggle with an overwhelming number of typos being dyslexic (on a keyboard, but not when writing longhand -- go figure) needing to be found/corrected (to make my posts appear coherent) but although that is a distraction, it's not an excuse. Thanks for pointing that "polar opposite" out in my latest contradiction...
>> Anyway, to get back on topic here re: "People OCing -- who's done it," I have this latest Walmart experience:
Was in a Superstore yesterday (El Paso TX), this time saw 3 security people (2 private/armed security and one EPPD City cop) -- the City cop wandering about the store but the 2 other guys were standing next to each other & socializing while "guarding" one door (they have TWO doors in that store, the other one was unwatched, just like LAST time I was there) -- but again, knowing ONE reason they're there is to bar OCers, I only went in with my OWB/OC holster empty (but was CCing during my visit as I won't be UNarmed). I don't think any of them noticed my empty holster, and only one of the 3 even looked at me.
And also again, once outside the store and in the parking lot, went back to OCing immediately.
Still waiting for my "new" EDC/OC carry gun to arrive (so I can do functioning/accuracy tests before carrying it).
Actually it arrived SATURDAY, but my FFL guy hasn't contacted me yet. :-(
 
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cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,870
Location
El Paso, TX
Latest Walmart adventure...
Went to a Walmart Neighborhood Market (WNM) last evening. As per usual here in ELP, only had my OWB/OC empty-holster showing (gun was CC'd in my vest's pocket), but I could have walked in OCing anyway: Two armed security (1 private company, the other a Sheriff deputy) were at the front door (good, as there's only ONE door at WNMs) as I went in but they were off to the side against a wall. BOTH were looking down on their phones doing text messages (I guess) and neither one even looked up once at me as I passed in front of them.
Well, at least their backs were to the wall...but from that position off to the side they couldn't see anyone approaching the door from outside, so they'd have ZERO time to prepare any response -- that is, IF they looked up from their phones.
From my experience here in Walmarts in ELP, I wouldn't feel very safe were I expecting their "security" to protect me. ;-)
>> Picked up my new EDC/OC gun from my FFL guy a couple of days ago...will be going out to the desert Sunday to make sure it works. Then start OCing it...but of course, NOT in certain "OC Challenged" stores here. ;-)
 
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solus

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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,496
Location
here nc
cloud..they say don't carry your new & purdy firearm in those areas where you might get it confiscated by those guarding the public safety...😳
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,870
Location
El Paso, TX
I won't! But at least I OC everywhere else I go...except Federal property: That's even WORSE if you get caught. :-(
As for my "new" EDC/OC gun, it's only a youngster -- 68 years old (milsurp Polish TT-33)...but DOES look new, maybe even unfired. Very nice...
HP ammo for it (PPU Defense Line from Sportsman's Guide) arrived earlier today (but need to go to the apt complex Leasing Office to pick it up).
Personally, I prefer military guns...they're battle-tested & proven. Plus, they're no-nonsense, just business. ;-)
 
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cloudcroft

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Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
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Location
El Paso, TX
Just saw this Fox21 TV News (Colorado Springs) article:
"COLORADO SPRINGS — The Walmart on Woodmen and Powers in Colorado Springs is back to normal operations after going on a brief lockdown Thursday.
Colorado Springs police were called to a disturbance at Walmart early Thursday evening.
Police say two people got into an altercation inside the store, which then became physical. Then one of the parties showed a gun.
When reported to Walmart, the store made the decision to go on a brief lockdown until it was safe.
According to police, when officers arrived on scene, the person who had the gun had already left the Walmart.
No shots were fired, and no injuries were reported. ..."

I used to go to that particular Walmart on occasion, and OCed every time (as per usual in COS back then 2013-2016).
I'm posting this to show it may get harder for people to OC in these big-box stores (and supermarkets) just because of "store-rage" incidents like this -- or a customer "frightened" at even seeing a gun on someome other than a LEO -- even IF the store doesn't have any "OC ban policy" in effect presently in its CO stores. I don't OC in Walmarts here in TX (ELP) due to their "request" (since that mass-shooting here at one) -- not to mention the armed security/city cops/sherriff deputies at the door barring OCing -- but thought I MIGHT be able to OC again in Walmarts once I got back to CO (later this year)...not so hopeful now.
I wonder how the Walmarts in Colorado Springs -- if not the entire state -- will (or not) respond to this. Meaning, even though this particular incident didn't result in a shooting, nowadays it doesn't take stores (and liberals) to overact.
 
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color of law

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Oct 7, 2007
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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Just saw this Fox21 TV News (Colorado Springs) article:
"COLORADO SPRINGS — The Walmart on Woodmen and Powers in Colorado Springs is back to normal operations after going on a brief lockdown Thursday.
Colorado Springs police were called to a disturbance at Walmart early Thursday evening.
Police say two people got into an altercation inside the store, which then became physical. Then one of the parties showed a gun.
When reported to Walmart, the store made the decision to go on a brief lockdown until it was safe.
According to police, when officers arrived on scene, the person who had the gun had already left the Walmart.
No shots were fired, and no injuries were reported. ..."

I used to go to that particular Walmart on occasion, and OCed every time (as per usual in COS back then 2013-2016).
I'm posting this to show it may get harder for people to OC in these big-box stores (and supermarkets) just because of "store-rage" incidents like this -- or a customer "frightened" at even seeing a gun on someome other than a LEO -- even IF the store doesn't have any "OC ban policy" in effect presently in its CO stores. I don't OC in Walmarts here in TX (ELP) due to their "request" (since that mass-shooting here at one) but thought I MIGHT be able to OC again in Walmarts once I got back to CO (later this year).
I wonder how the Walmarts in Colorado Springs -- if noth the entire state -- will (or not) respond to this. Meaning, even though this particular didn;t resuly in a shooting, nowadays it doesn't take stores (and liberals) to overact.
Can someone tell me what this lockdown stuff is? There is no store or police going to tell me I can't leave unless they got probable cause.
 
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