deanf
Regular Member
Simmer down please.
It's not that simple. They have to have standing.
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Open Carry in the news KHQ interview with Jeff Hayes
- Thread starter DEROS72
- Start date
Simmer down please.
It's not that simple. They have to have standing.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
I'll bow out you handle him Dean. There is a thread already to discuss this in, he won't back up his claims so I'll only contribute this anymore for a show of support for Jeff and Thor.
By the way guys met D Wordinger last night we got our picture taken with a presidential candidtate...and justice Sanders.
and we were open carrying, light was bad though and I didn't have a good camera just my crappy phone.
He's a cool guy.
By the way guys met D Wordinger last night we got our picture taken with a presidential candidtate...and justice Sanders.
and we were open carrying, light was bad though and I didn't have a good camera just my crappy phone.He's a cool guy.
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Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
I'll bow out you handle him Dean. There is a thread already to discuss this in, he won't back up his claims so I'll only contribute this anymore for a show of support for Jeff and Thor.
By the way guys met D Wordinger last night we got our picture taken with a presidential candidtate...and justice Sanders.
He's a cool guy.
I might add calm, collected and astute to your description of Mr. Wordinger.
Were you two OC, probably a dumb question but I had to ask.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Yep we were , I should have went down to the liberty summit today he is still on our wet side, I was in a group talking with Justice Sanders, and his firearm caught my eye, I was exclaimed "Wow another open carrier" !
Both Justice Sanders and Governor Johnson took pictures with us and had no problems with our firearms. Johnson talked about some of the lessening he did of firearm restriction in New Mexico.
And I agree with your added description of Mr. Wordinger.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
I was contacted by an old high school friend who got wind of my being kicked out for open carrying , we have stayed in touch for over 40 years, Debe's comment was how very Jeff of you. I had to laugh at that one and share.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
LOL...that's good a track record of standing up for whats right!
For those of you curious about the state of this case,
see the attached file, which are the minutes from the
Spokane PFD meeting that Orphan attended.
The PFD Board is not obligated to take action on any item
presented during the Public Comment period,
and the wording in the minutes reflects that.
Never-the-less, Mr. McDowell did indicate verbally to Orphan
that the board would make a response to Orphan after checking
with the city attorney.
The next meeting is scheduled for this next Tuesday, March 27.
hadji
see the attached file, which are the minutes from the
Spokane PFD meeting that Orphan attended.
The PFD Board is not obligated to take action on any item
presented during the Public Comment period,
and the wording in the minutes reflects that.
Never-the-less, Mr. McDowell did indicate verbally to Orphan
that the board would make a response to Orphan after checking
with the city attorney.
The next meeting is scheduled for this next Tuesday, March 27.
hadji
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
The question now is how long do I wait to hear back from the BoD, I am thinking a few days after the next board meeting.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
I saw it Hadji, thank you I have been debating on going to the upcoming board meeting tomorrow or waiting for the next meeting. I looked and there is nothing pertaining to me or firearms on the lenitive agenda for tomorrow.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
OK I screwed up today, I did not check to see where the PFD board meeting was going to be held. So I ended up going to the same place the meeting was held last time. Anyway I did not have time to got to the other meeting place before the meeting started so I decided to wait until the next meeting. Note to self check where the meeting is going to be held before you go. Sorry guys.
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
If you have a contact for them, how about just calling and see if they responded on your request?
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Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
I have several emails but not one for the chairman, good idea Dave thanks.
Orphan:
I should have warned you about their propensity to change venues.
Never the less, the time is not wasted.
You may want to start the process required to obtain a place
on the agenda of the city council.
You will want the answer from the PFD Board before addressing the city council,
unless they delay more than 90 days from the date of your request.
In that case, you may want to proceed despite the lack of a response.
An unfavorable response, or a lack of any response in a timely manner,
can both be addressed in a similiar way, by presenting what essentially
amounts to a 'Brief of Appellant'.
These are not very common, but I believe it fits your case particularly well.
The stategy changes somewhat with a favorable response,
becoming more along the lines of a 'Cause of Action',
noting the disposition of the case by the PFD Board.
hadji
I should have warned you about their propensity to change venues.
Never the less, the time is not wasted.
You may want to start the process required to obtain a place
on the agenda of the city council.
You will want the answer from the PFD Board before addressing the city council,
unless they delay more than 90 days from the date of your request.
In that case, you may want to proceed despite the lack of a response.
An unfavorable response, or a lack of any response in a timely manner,
can both be addressed in a similiar way, by presenting what essentially
amounts to a 'Brief of Appellant'.
These are not very common, but I believe it fits your case particularly well.
The stategy changes somewhat with a favorable response,
becoming more along the lines of a 'Cause of Action',
noting the disposition of the case by the PFD Board.
hadji
A friendly reminder: the next PFD Board meeting is April 10, 2012.
Per our discussion off-line, you will likely gain the information you require
before the meeting even starts.
Preparations should be in process to address the city council.
hadji
Per our discussion off-line, you will likely gain the information you require
before the meeting even starts.
Preparations should be in process to address the city council.
hadji
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
Emails exchanged with Mr Twohig, cc to Ms. Boxley and Mr. McDowell, yesterday. They are having the PFD lawyer look into it. The new Spokane City Attorney does not start until I believe the 9th of April. I am thinking we will not get an answer from the city until after she gets up and going.
The PFD attorney, Stanley Schwartz of Witherspoon Kelley,
has previously served as a Spokane Assistant City Attorney.
His expertise, and experience, is primarily in real estate and business law,
with some environmental / annexation experience thrown in.
We believe he has little, if any, experience in 2A, RKBA, OC/CC issues.
Kevin Twohig is an intelligent and clever business man
who has a knack for the 'pragmatic compromise'.
You would be wise to take a few days to consider any offer he proposes,
despite any conditions he may impose.
Like, "The offer is on the table until you leave the room.".
You would be wise to ignore those kinds of offers completely.
His initial response to this issue will be delay,
with very reasonable sounding explanations;
but delay none the less.
Ninety days is a reasonable amount of time
to allow for a response from Stan / PFD Board.
The issue is not very complex,
and the question that you asked of them is narrow.
The new city attorney, Nancy Isserlis, will indeed take some time to come up to speed,
but she will not be the one doing most of the research on this issue.
And Ms. Isserlis will not become involved until after your first city council meeting.
You will present your request for a change in SMC 10.10.50 to the city council,
and they will refer it to Ms. Isserlis.
That is why you may want to start preparing for the city council meeting now.
Orphan, you have, by far, the best test case we have ever seen.
Your case is essentially a prima facie case, worthy of a directed verdict.
Even so, this case will probably not evolve that way.
We, the members of this board, should be prepared to support this effort financially.
hadji
has previously served as a Spokane Assistant City Attorney.
His expertise, and experience, is primarily in real estate and business law,
with some environmental / annexation experience thrown in.
We believe he has little, if any, experience in 2A, RKBA, OC/CC issues.
Kevin Twohig is an intelligent and clever business man
who has a knack for the 'pragmatic compromise'.
You would be wise to take a few days to consider any offer he proposes,
despite any conditions he may impose.
Like, "The offer is on the table until you leave the room.".
You would be wise to ignore those kinds of offers completely.
His initial response to this issue will be delay,
with very reasonable sounding explanations;
but delay none the less.
Ninety days is a reasonable amount of time
to allow for a response from Stan / PFD Board.
The issue is not very complex,
and the question that you asked of them is narrow.
The new city attorney, Nancy Isserlis, will indeed take some time to come up to speed,
but she will not be the one doing most of the research on this issue.
And Ms. Isserlis will not become involved until after your first city council meeting.
You will present your request for a change in SMC 10.10.50 to the city council,
and they will refer it to Ms. Isserlis.
That is why you may want to start preparing for the city council meeting now.
Orphan, you have, by far, the best test case we have ever seen.
Your case is essentially a prima facie case, worthy of a directed verdict.
Even so, this case will probably not evolve that way.
We, the members of this board, should be prepared to support this effort financially.
hadji
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
As I recommended to begin with, approach the city council either by contact of council members and/or mayor by introducing a request the offending ordinance come into compliance and direct the convention center to come into compliance with State Law and City Ordinance.
The PDF Board can come back in a number of ways and likely not supportive of abiding by State Law.
The concept of this is to approach the entity that can actually do something about it.
hadji anytime someone hides behind a cloak while offering advise in matters of this makes me wonder and should, what is driving you to apart of this action and the secret squirrel when coming about leaking information and now bringing up the issue this board should be ready to financially support legal action, makes one wonder.
There are numerous Cities and Counties that have been approached and brought into compliance with not a dime spent but with a little effort and elbow grease.
Orphan another issue you may consider is to have a meeting with the Police Chief and find his views on enforcing an ordinance that is in violation of State Law, it worked real well here in Yakima for me and had his support from day one as his stance the offending city ordinance was unenforceable.
The PDF Board can come back in a number of ways and likely not supportive of abiding by State Law.
The concept of this is to approach the entity that can actually do something about it.
hadji anytime someone hides behind a cloak while offering advise in matters of this makes me wonder and should, what is driving you to apart of this action and the secret squirrel when coming about leaking information and now bringing up the issue this board should be ready to financially support legal action, makes one wonder.
There are numerous Cities and Counties that have been approached and brought into compliance with not a dime spent but with a little effort and elbow grease.
Orphan another issue you may consider is to have a meeting with the Police Chief and find his views on enforcing an ordinance that is in violation of State Law, it worked real well here in Yakima for me and had his support from day one as his stance the offending city ordinance was unenforceable.
oneeyeross
Regular Member
Hadj is providing excellent advice and is a great resource, whatever the opinion of some people here might be....good advice is good advice, regardless of where it comes from....bad advice is the same.