Open carry is uncivilized

[wimwag]

I did read it. I get it. You guys play call of duty in the woods to prepare to fight "tyranny". I get it.

But here's a tid bit.... That's just ONE interpretation of 2a....

Its telling you choose to focus on that portion and none other.

For example...."NG, army, Marines, POLICE, sheeple". No mention of foreign enemies. No mention of even self defense against local thug. Just pure focus on government.

Yet you pretend its a noble cause about sandbagging....

Hhmmmm...

Then, no, you don't get it and you are part of the problem. The risk of foreign invasion is low enough that I list police and government troops as being the primary concern. The reality is that we are probably going to have a second civil war very soon and that YOU personally will be on the other side. I see no statements made by you that indicate otherwise.

BTW, sheeple= Obama supporters="local thugs."

 

[Primus]

Then, no, you don't get it and you are part of the problem. The risk of foreign invasion is low enough that I list police and government troops as being the primary concern. The reality is that we are probably going to have a second civil war very soon and that YOU personally will be on the other side. I see no statements made by you that indicate otherwise.

BTW, sheeple= Obama supporters="local thugs."

Here we go again...

Another tid bit... It's always your "side" that's clanging the battle sabers.

Your just too dumb to realize how good you have it. That's meant towards you and others like you.

You just bought a damn house and have a family. How did the .gov stop that? It didn't. Too dense to realize how great you have it.

Instead you wish and dream of dying in a blaze of glory against some "threat". News flash. There's no glory in war. Its a lot of dead dudes and ****** up survivors.

Civil war is the LAST thing that should he on guys minds. Especially guys that really have very little to bitch about.

Is it perfect here? Hell no. Is the .gov screwed up? Yes. Definitely. Do peoples right get violated? Yes. Do innocents get killed? Yes.

But is that worth thousands dying (actually probably close to millions) ? No. Especially when theres many other ways to fix it. Guys scream corruption yet on a regular basis innocent citizens are winning millions of dollars in lawsuits. Scream corruption when judges regularly smack down cops in court. Politics? Hell literally any kind of politician you want you can find it. Republican, libertarian, Democrat, constitutionalist, pro 2a, pro Obama care.... You name it.

Anyone ever notice the irony in the fact that YOUR FREE to openly train with your buddies in the war for a "civil war" and blather about it on the internet?

 

[wimwag]

Here we go again...

Another tid bit... It's always your "side" that's clanging the battle sabers.

Your just too dumb to realize how good you have it. That's meant towards you and others like you.

You just bought a damn house and have a family. How did the .gov stop that? It didn't. Too dense to realize how great you have it.

Instead you wish and dream of dying in a blaze of glory against some "threat". News flash. There's no glory in war. Its a lot of dead dudes and ****** up survivors.

Civil war is the LAST thing that should he on guys minds. Especially guys that really have very little to bitch about.

Is it perfect here? Hell no. Is the .gov screwed up? Yes. Definitely. Do peoples right get violated? Yes. Do innocents get killed? Yes.

But is that worth thousands dying (actually probably close to millions) ? No. Especially when theres many other ways to fix it. Guys scream corruption yet on a regular basis innocent citizens are winning millions of dollars in lawsuits. Scream corruption when judges regularly smack down cops in court. Politics? Hell literally any kind of politician you want you can find it. Republican, libertarian, Democrat, constitutionalist, pro 2a, pro Obama care.... You name it.

Anyone ever notice the irony in the fact that YOUR FREE to openly train with your buddies in the war for a "civil war" and blather about it on the internet?

Again, you fail to get the point and assume you are all knowing.

I do not wish for war. I do not want to kill. Were it a perfect world, I would gladly give up my weapons and stick my head in the sand. But it's not. Our government is very ****** up and will bring the fight to us. I live in reality and reality dictates that I may have to be one of the first casualties.

If I get what you're implying, you think that I'm a warmongering idiot because you think the government will win, and that we should all just give up ahead of time so we don't get hurt. Right?

I'm sure that a majority of the colonists thought the same thing, yet 3% of the population actually took up arms and brought down a world power. Why don't you turn in that badge? You clearly don't have it in you to serve the Constitution anymore. Maybe Burger King is more your speed.

 

[wimwag]

http://www.delmarvanow.com/story/ne...21/sheriff-opposes-gun-restrictions/16027911/

You could learn a lot from this man, Primus.

 

[Primus]

Again, you fail to get the point and assume you are all knowing.

I do not wish for war. I do not want to kill. Were it a perfect world, I would gladly give up my weapons and stick my head in the sand. But it's not. Our government is very ****** up and will bring the fight to us. I live in reality and reality dictates that I may have to be one of the first casualties.

If I get what you're implying, you think that I'm a warmongering idiot because you think the government will win, and that we should all just give up ahead of time so we don't get hurt. Right?

I'm sure that a majority of the colonists thought the same thing, yet 3% of the population actually took up arms and brought down a world power. Why don't you turn in that badge? You clearly don't have it in you to serve the Constitution anymore. Maybe Burger King is more your speed.

I never said who would "win". Ever.

Even if "you" "won". Who's going to be president? This isn't some game.

There's that seeing stuff in the shadows again.... News flash your local government (to include the national guard) sucks and couldnt wage any kind of war. Your biggest "threat" would be active military. Period. And they are vastly out numbered.

So your beef with police is just a personal issue. Not a tactical one.

Finally, my absolute desire for peace has nothing to do with my badge. It comes from a thing called experience. Those with it tend to be less ready to run to be "one of the first casualties"....

 

[Grapeshot]

Why are we spending so much time attacking each other?

Reminds me of that old Pogo line: "We have met the enemy and he is us."

If we can't be civil and work around our differences, there is little hope for the commonality of cause.

 

[Primus]

Why are we spending so much time attacking each other?

Reminds me of that old Pogo line: "We have met the enemy and he is us."

If we can't be civil and work around our differences, there is little hope for the commonality of cause.

Well said and I agree.

With that I'll cease fire.

 

[OC for ME]

Ohh I like this argument... "They are bad so we can suck too" or... "Yea we suck but they suck worse so its ok" you get it...

I did not state that a militia sucks, just not my speed. Conversely SWAT teams have demonstrated that their expanded use is a direct threat to the communities they are "servicing."

If SWAT were to be used only for their original purpose then I may reevaluate my view of them. I suspect that they will not and my view will remain unchanged.

Disband SWAT.

 

[marshaul]

If SWAT were to be used only for their original purpose then I may reevaluate my view of them. I suspect that they will not and my view will remain unchanged.

Disband SWAT.

Agreed.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

To address original question -

Firstly, civility cannot be achieved by abandoning civility itself or arbitrarily selecting a set of individuals to abandon civility in order to enforce it upon others. To attempt his would be both hypocritical and ineffective. Secondly, societal progress - civility - neither can be achieved by being unprepared or undetermined to stop crime and incivility, nor by being ashamed of one's preparedness to do exactly that. In fact, I'd submit that open carry is a progression of civility, while concealing your preparedness and determination to stop crime and incivility is negligently restraining deterrence to that crime and incivility.

 

[Primus]

I did not state that a militia sucks, just not my speed. Conversely SWAT teams have demonstrated that their expanded use is a direct threat to the communities they are "servicing."

If SWAT were to be used only for their original purpose then I may reevaluate my view of them. I suspect that they will not and my view will remain unchanged.

Disband SWAT.

That's a great theory that I don't necessarily disagree with. There are many well documented times that a better method then utilizing a dynamic entry existed but wasn't used.

I just failed to recognize the connection of swat and militias other then you disapprove of both.

I could say..... Drunk driving posses a worse threat then militias.... Or teenage drivers... Or slipping on ice....

The fact another thing I more of a threat (many things) doesn't make the connection for me.

 

[F350]

Originally Posted by F350 View Post
When I was in Ramadi Iraq I often saw the turret gunners in the MRAPS wearing those skull "masks", especially in the winter. They are not full masks, only covering the nose and mouth to keep the dust out and for warmth in cold weather. They were sold in the PX.

So this guy is recruiting for the US army as a former gunner?

Did I miss something?

Naw, one of the posts struck me as surprised at the mask, I was just saying there are probably thousands of them floating around.

I thought it looked pretty cool with helmet and goggles and mask; it looked like the army of the dead.

 

[OC for ME]

I injected SWAT.

Many SWAT members wear masks and they are public servants...go figure. Though, I guess they do have a right to privacy since they are invading private residences, mostly.

My post regarding masks.

Lol you nailed it.

Only difference is they don't usually shoot recruitment videos with a skull mask and finger on their trigger saying "we aren't terrorists we promise....." Lol

Demonstrated that the "look" of the mask is irrelevant. It is a mask being worn by a cop while engaged in his official duties. I disagree with this practice. It hinders holding those who violate the law accountable for their unlawful acts. Cops shop are loath to ID these wrong doers, thus these cop shops are loath to hold their minions to account for the wrongs their minions commit.

Very true. Poor weapon control is unsafe, and being masked is a violation of the law in some jurisdictions. Anyway...

I wonder how many raids these militia folks have made, nation wide, these last several years when compared to SWAT.
How many folks have been killed by these militia folks the same time period.
I wonder how many mistaken/bad info raids militia men performed that resulted in militia men being harmed.

I contend that SWAT is far more dangerous, based on actual events, to the citizenry than any militia.

But, what do I know, militia men are a little too out on the edges for me.

SWAT, now there is the real threat to safety and security.

Look up swatting...

Obviously SWAT is responsible for more deaths of innocent citizens than any militia in recent history. Accountability is rare, very rare, and the shooter(s) are never, to my knowledge, held to account personally. Insurance and unions pick up the tab and the shooter(s) retain their anonymity and mask.

Ohh I like this argument... "They are bad so we can suck too" or... "Yea we suck but they suck worse so its ok" you get it...

I did not state that a militia sucks, just not my speed. Conversely SWAT teams have demonstrated that their expanded use is a direct threat to the communities they are "servicing."

If SWAT were to be used only for their original purpose then I may reevaluate my view of them. I suspect that they will not and my view will remain unchanged.

Disband SWAT.

That's a great theory that I don't necessarily disagree with. There are many well documented times that a better method then utilizing a dynamic entry existed but wasn't used.

I just failed to recognize the connection of swat and militias other then you disapprove of both.

I could say..... Drunk driving posses a worse threat then militias.... Or teenage drivers... Or slipping on ice....

The fact another thing I more of a threat (many things) doesn't make the connection for me.

RIF.

You don't make the connection because you choose not to make the connection at what appears to be a subconscious level. You are a cop first and foremost. Nothing wrong with this as long as your "copness" is tempered with a a dose of holding your fellow cops accountable whenever you witness their lawlessness. You have stated that you will not, except in the most dire of circumstance, and I have my doubts that you would actually do such a thing. You will punt to a supervisor.

Anyway. SWAT is bad, militias could be bad. I suspect that the average beat cop or two will more likely than not mitigate any need, virtually in every instance, for a SWAT component in any LEA.

Disband SWAT.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

According to the definition of militia as written into the Virginia constitution ( which predates the US) it is the body of armed people, are armed people bad?

 

[wimwag]

That's a great theory that I don't necessarily disagree with. There are many well documented times that a better method then utilizing a dynamic entry existed but wasn't used.

I just failed to recognize the connection of swat and militias other then you disapprove of both.

I could say..... Drunk driving posses a worse threat then militias.... Or teenage drivers... Or slipping on ice....

The fact another thing I more of a threat (many things) doesn't make the connection for me.

Or just not raiding a house with select fire weapons because of a possibility of a small amount of hash being under a bead or residue being present on some cookware was probably a better option as well. Why not wait until the idiots leave the house and you know it's empty, then grab them and search the empty house?

Tactics win the day. You may win a battle but lose the war.

The SWAT epidemic is reminiscent of the Vietnam war. Except for the Dunn County WI SWAT team. lol They can't catch a guy with a .30-30 lever in a crappy farm truck. Probably because they fired and the slide slapped them in the forehead. OAF

 

[wimwag]

According to the definition of militia as written into the Virginia constitution ( which predates the US) it is the body of armed people, are armed people bad?

You're a monster.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

You're a monster.

To the statist I realize I am, and take it as a compliment....