Open Carry Pocket Cards

[stainless1911]

You could print them, then scan them into your computer. Someone more computer savvy might have a better answer though.

Welcome to OCDO BTW.

 

[Helljumper09]

I would love to print them out but I cannot download them to print them. They won't load on my computer.

 

[stainless1911]

Can't you right click, then select "print" ?

 

[Helljumper09]

I didnt even think of that. Thanks for the info.

 

[Scotchman]

MCL memory cards.

as long as we are talking about carry cards i think a more usable one would be a list of the michigan legal statutes that cover OC. this wouldn't be for your reference so much as it would be to show LEO or managers of establishments that aren't sure of the law. you wouldn't have to quote the entire statute but the wording that directly applies with red lettering for the crucial words. if an LEO wanted to challenge your legal knowledge it would be all right there. they can't argue the exact law that allows it.

also thought of LEO question flash cards..question on the front..the answer you should give on the back

Maybe someone could make a second card with the laws. Great Ideas especially for newbies or those first nervous encounters

 

[stainless1911]

Too much info IMO. Check out the open carry guide project thread, its a sticky.

MSP legal update #86 is pretty close to what you're asking for though.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

 

[DrTodd]

Too much info IMO. Check out the open carry guide project thread, its a sticky.

MSP legal update #86 is pretty close to what you're asking for though.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

Good suggestion. It is reasonably clear and, since it is promulgated by the MSP, it has some "authority" in people's minds. Before anyone comments, let me add that I am aware this is only policy for MSP and local PDs who choose to follow it. That being said, it is a good overview of OC/CC in Michigan... especially for those who are new or visiting from out of state.

 

[WARCHILD]

Also keep in mind that from past interactions we have seen that most leo's don't care to have the law or any information cited to them. After all, they already "know" the laws.

I firmly believe, wash, rinse, repeat; is the best course of action to follow.

JMO

 

[aepfelsauce]

Wait, even with a cpl, we can't carry into post offices?

Where is the law regarding post offices?

 

[stainless1911]

Post offices are federal. I dont have the cite, but you can't OC or CC there.

 

[thebigsd]

Post offices are federal. I dont have the cite, but you can't OC or CC there.

US Code Title 18
§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d)Subsection (a) shall not apply to- (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

 

[stainless1911]

Thanks.

There are 2 possble arguments that I know of to this law, neither of which would fly IMO.

The US Constitution Amendment 2, and arguing the following.

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

Bottom line, dont mess with it. You'll get screwed.

 

[fozzy71]

...

Bottom line, dont mess with it. You'll get screwed.

Unless you are a LEO.

 

[aepfelsauce]

So the parking areas are included in the property right?

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/usps39cfr232-1.html

 

[Mike]

So the parking areas are included in the property right?

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/usps39cfr232-1.html

no - you are citing to a regulation - the thread is about the statute which is about buildings only.

 

[DrTodd]

Let me add that people often cite a United States District Court Eastern District Of Louisiana Memoranda Opinion than upheld the Post Office's gun ban in a facility's parking lot. However, this case dealt with a postal employee who parked his car in an area clearly posted with signs that firearms were prohibited. The requirements of § 930 of US Code Title 18 state that:


(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

That being the case, I think that unless the property was, as was the case in U.S. v. Dorosan (2008) , posted as required and somehow set off from the adjoining property by fencing or some other restricted access, the parking lot would not be a prohibited area. Furthermore, I would think that the individual's status as an employee may also have had something to do with the strength of the Post Office's argument. However, I am not an attorney and would follow their counsel regarding any personal circumstance regarding this.

U.S. v. Dorosan (2008) http://volokh.com/files/dorosan.pdf

 

[rushalot1]

Great Cards, I like it when someone puts things like these together.

 

[Sco]

The links are not working =( is there anyway someone can copy and paste it or PM me =) thanks everyone

 

[TheQ]

The links are not working =( is there anyway someone can copy and paste it or PM me =) thanks everyone

Try looking in this thread: http://www.forums.miopencarry.org/index.php?topic=25

 

[zigziggityzoo]

Links updated.