sevenplusone
Regular Member
imported post
Bikenut wrote:
I think if somebody doesn't practice with their long gun theywon't practice much with their sidearm either and it's a wholelot easier to be accurate and quick with long gun than a handgun. If you want to bring training into this, it takes a lot more training to be successful with a handgun in a HD scenario.
I for one do live-fire range drills with my HD shotty at least once a month (usually about 25-50 rds) and fire 700-1500rds a month of handgun drills (about 90% .22lr). I still find myself to be more accurate at any given range with a long gun than a handgun (maybe I just suck). It's just the nature of the beast.
** I'd like to think we're both doing a decent job presenting our side of the argument. I'm interested in seeing what others say. It's a pleasure debating with you and you are a more than worthy opponent. I don't take any of this personally, nor do I think you are ragging on me. This is very serious stuff and honestly, you can never have too much information. That said, eventually you have to pick your system and then practice the heck out of it.
Bikenut wrote:
I guess we'll not find common ground to work with here. I have a well-built tactical length shotgun that will always be my go-to HD weapon and you will stick with your sidearm. I personally have no issues properly pieing/clearing/etc. my home with my shotgun and this is something I practice in the dark on a regular basis. I also do shoot my shotty a lot. It's one of my favorite range pieces. Unloading 7+1 shotgun shells is always a good time.sevenplusone wrote:You left out this part of my post that you quoted:If handguns are superior for clearing homes than why does every SWAT/Tactical/etc team enter a home with carbines and shotguns?
It's because it's a lot easier to hit stuff with a long gun and the power is needed when you expect trouble.
Training is the most important thing, one shouldknow how to properly clear a room with whatever weapon they have, but a shotgun really is the bestand most cost-effective choice.
Bikenut wrote:So... how many average folks have the level of training of a SWAT member?In some homes the long gun will work best... in some homes the pistol will work best. For some folks who have training up the wazoo any dang gun will work the best... but then, how many average folks have training up the wazoo?
Perhaps you do... and although I do have some training it doesn't equal the training a SWAT member gets.... and I suspect the vast majority of average folks out there don't either.
Not to mention SWAT operates as a multimember team covering each other as they work their way around corners... does the average citizen have a team to help them clear their house?
Once again... I'm not ragging on you... just pointing out that long guns are not the end all be all defensive choice for everyone in every home just because they have a bigger "bang" than a pistol.
I'll give an example... a personal example.
In my home I have a fatal tunnel and a deadly crossroads.. both at the same place, the exit from my bedroom. If I use a long gun I cannot pie all 4 corners without exposing myself from at least 2 directions because I can't get the barrel past the corner far enough to shoot at something without showing myself too much. And not without sticking the barrel of a long gun out where it can be grabbed. Not to mention it is a pain to move around without banging the barrel of a long gun against a wall or two.
With a pistol I can stay further back and still pie all those corners much more safely.
Now... perhaps some folks don't have that problem in their house but for those of us who do a long gun becomes a detriment that works against us... not for us. And I'd much rather have a lower powered pistol that I can actually use effectively than a highly powered long gun that I can't get around the corner to use.
But then... each of us needs to evaluate their own homes.. and the hazards built into those homes.. and figure out how to best address those hazards.. and what tool will work the best for addressing those hazards regardless of how big a "bang" it has.
Having the biggest gun in the world won't help if it can't be brought to bear on the threat and actually be used to defend.
I think if somebody doesn't practice with their long gun theywon't practice much with their sidearm either and it's a wholelot easier to be accurate and quick with long gun than a handgun. If you want to bring training into this, it takes a lot more training to be successful with a handgun in a HD scenario.
I for one do live-fire range drills with my HD shotty at least once a month (usually about 25-50 rds) and fire 700-1500rds a month of handgun drills (about 90% .22lr). I still find myself to be more accurate at any given range with a long gun than a handgun (maybe I just suck). It's just the nature of the beast.
** I'd like to think we're both doing a decent job presenting our side of the argument. I'm interested in seeing what others say. It's a pleasure debating with you and you are a more than worthy opponent. I don't take any of this personally, nor do I think you are ragging on me. This is very serious stuff and honestly, you can never have too much information. That said, eventually you have to pick your system and then practice the heck out of it.