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Philly PD pays $25,000 for abuse of open carrier

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,710
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
#1
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20120308_Gun-rights_advocate_gets__25G_payday.html

SNIP

Gun-rights advocate gets $25G payday
BY MORGAN ZALOT
Philadelphia Daily News

Mark Fiorino, who sued the city last month after he was arrested for legally carrying his Glock on Frankford Avenue in 2011, will receive $25,000 after accepting an offer of judgment in his favor from the city Thursday.

He and his lawyers said they accepted the offer instead of going to trial because they're satisfied with the steps the city and police department have taken to better train officers about open-carry laws. In the city, it is legal to openly carry a firearm as long as you have a permit to carry.

"Mr. Fiorino was seeking change in the way the city trains its police officers and vindication in connection with the violation of his constitutional rights," Benjamin Picker, an attorney representing Fiorino along with the American Civil Liberties Union, said in statement.

. . .
 

Emtp8383

New member
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
9
Location
Baltimore
#4
Philly will likely never give up and learn their lesson, they will likely continue harassment thinking we will give up.

Also, doesn't it seem from the headline they think we're just in this for the money?
 

MackTheKnife

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
198
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
#5
They will choose not to learn

Philly will likely never give up and learn their lesson, they will likely continue harassment thinking we will give up.

Also, doesn't it seem from the headline they think we're just in this for the money?
Don't forget who the Police Chief is: Ramsey who came from Washington, DC. He ain't no fan of guns, period.
 

MarkPA

New member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
1
Location
New Hope
#7
OK, so this settlement against a city, as well as others, suggest a strategy.

Can't we find an 2A-chaser-lawyer who will "sponsor" OC events in suitable venues?

He picks suitable jurisdictions as student-defendents and solicits volunteers who live/work in the area. At the appointed hour, the volunteers appear and go about the planned activity (eating an ice cream cone, making a speech about civil rights, whatever).

Either of 2 outcomes will occur:
1) nothing;
2) a constable appears and does something in violation of the law.

If #1, then, the constabulary in that venue becomes accustomed to people exercising their civil rights. Albeit not entirely satisfying, the outcome inches the ball forward a little.
If #2, then the constabulary learns a new lesson that might be recognized by politicians and, eventually, the taxpayers. (Incidentally, the lawyer might be compensated modestly for performing his duty to society.)

The more often the lesson needs to be taught in a particular jurisdiction the better. The more often the lesson is taught in diverse jurisdictions the more broadly the lesson will eventually be learned throughout the Commonwealth. Just one or two settlements/awards per year in distant boroughs will be ignored indefinitely.

I have Saturdays and Sundays available; I imagine many readers do so as well. Shouldn't be hard to get a few volunteers from this forum.

Mark
 

Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,172
Location
earth's crust
#8
$45K is the minimum I would settle any pending case for .... $25K?? Likely has to pay his lawyer 1/3rd ... not worth it after dat

25K? might as well just drop the case all together.

Do not listen to your lawyer regarding settlement amounts ... all lawyers are lazy and will take the fist amt tossed at them...they don't care, onto their next case for easy money.


A trial costs 50-60K .... they'll be puking out this money anyways if they go to trial ... win or lose

What do they win? nothing really.... What can they lose? Hundreds of thousands..
 

MackTheKnife

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
198
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
#9
This case was especially egregious. The cop in the video was so profanely abusive he should have been fired. Too bad he can't have his ass kicked. I agree with the fact that one of these cases needs to go trial that yields punitive and compensatory damages. It needs to be more than a few bucks and "we'll educate/train our cops." The cops are supposed to know the law, not abuse it.

Razor Max Tapatalk.
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
606
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
#10
Good news!! Hopefully Philadelphia has learned their lesson this time around.
I think that you are dreaming.

A police department is a large monolithic organization that doesn't care when it gets caught abusing the citizens a little bit.

The individual officers don''t care becuse they are not held responsible and until you make them fear loosing their bank accounts or other things they hold dear, they will continue to power trip all over the people no matter what the law says.
 

Jimsouth

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Messages
84
Location
Pa
#12
I have a CC permit in Pa; but if & when I go to Philly, I make sure I carry an inexpensive pistol. That being, one I can afford to lose. Not always; but more often than not, it will be confiscated until you handle any & all legalities. Just a hassle.
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
437
Location
Central Ky.
#13
I have a CC permit in Pa; but if & when I go to Philly, I make sure I carry an inexpensive pistol. That being, one I can afford to lose. Not always; but more often than not, it will be confiscated until you handle any & all legalities. Just a hassle.
Do you realize that there has been no posts to that thread in 5 years? Talk about a necropost
 

Last edited:

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
3,883
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
#16
No posts in the past five years because it's no longer an issue. All police forces, including Philadelphia, have received notice through their annual training that open carry is legal, throughout the Commonwealth, no license required.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

Then why does Handgun.us say "Open Carry is legal except a valid permit/license is needed to carry a loaded handgun openly or concealed in a vehicle and for openly carrying in the city of Philadelphia."
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
11,365
Location
White Oak Plantation
#17
§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license. (a) Offense defined.--

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...tl=18&div=00.&chpt=061.&sctn=006.&subsctn=000.
Read for yourself.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
3,951
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
#18
§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license. (a) Offense defined.--

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...6.&subsctn=000.



Read for yourself.
Unless I'm missing something, that doesn't answer color of law's question, as it looks to me like the cited portion of the law refers to *concealed* carry only.

I believe this is the section relevant to open carry in Philadelphia: https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.061.008.000..HTM


§ 6108. Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.
No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:
(1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
(2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).
 

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