sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
I've read the dissent in Terry v. Ohio. I've read every major court decision. That's how I roll. In fact, I've quoted the dissent. it's quite eloquent.
Regardless, the 4th amendment says searches and seizures must be reasonable. It does not ADDRESS different grades of seizures. And our courts stepped in and filled in the gaps. There's lots of smart as hell scholars that can offer beautiful prose to agree with Terry v. Ohio and lots that oppose it. Again, I've read plenty.
This isn't an issue of me not understanding the issue. We both understand the issue, we merely disagree.
Intelligent, informed well meaning people can , will disagree. I have no problem with that. I am more than aware that you disagree with the constitutionality of terry stops. Groovy. I don't. I think they are eminently reasonable form of seizure and that's the metric required for ANY seizure per the 4th amendment. LEO's can also seize without even indicia of a crime whatsoever e.g. community caretaking doctrine. Again, the question to ask is - is it reasonable? That' the metric they gave us, and it's the metric that MY seizures are judged by.
You can keep repeating yourself, but trust me - I KNOW you disagree with the logic of terry. I respect that (adults can respect differing opinions).
I certainly think Terry has more constitutional validity than Miranda, which was purely invented. Great. As a LEO, I operate under the law we have, not the law we wish we had. In many respects I think cops have too many search and seizure powers. In a few areas i think we have too little. Again, groovy.
I overwhelmingly believe in rule of law, which is why I FOLLOW Miranda. I don't have to agree with it; I just have to comply with it.
Either way, I 100% understand your argument. I just don't agree with it. Reasonableness is the requisite metric and imo terry meets it
What an apologist for the degradation of civil power and the increase of the police state. There is no gaps in the 4th, you just don't like the restrictions it has and the courts graciously concede to the police state way to often, what's next "its a living breathing document"?
There is no such thing as too little powers for cops, and thank you for admitting you operate under the law we have, not the law we wish we had. This is a horrible excuse I see public employees use it goes right along with "just following orders".