Prepare for LEO contact!

[ryanburbridge]

I can't go into all the details yet. Hopefully soon.

BUT

I would like to take this opportunity to reiterate something the seasoned UOCers have urged everyone for a long time.

BE PREPARED!

I see a lot of new faces on this forum and that's great.

When I found out UOC was legal I jumped in with both feet. I spent weeks studying as much as I could.

I knew it all by the time my holster came in the mail.

One thing that I read that stuck out in my mind was something about having thousands set aside for legal fees BEFOR you step outside.

HA I said to that! What an elitist thing to say. ITS MY RIGHT! Not just for the rich!

Well as a member with documented LEO encounters and a learn as you go attitude. (the hard way) I am here to beg ANYONE that plans to UOC to take UOC in ca VERY serious!

Odds are you will come into LEO contact manny times more then a "self defense" situation and as such should devote plenty of training to LEO contact.

This is not another thread with instructions on how to UOC.

I just want to share my thoughts and how they have changed.

As a husband with a wife and three kids protecting my family is very important. But as the sole provider to my family can I afford to UOC?

Maybe!

But only if I take every precaution.

Jail time due to UOC would be devastating to my family.

Court costs due to UOC would cost me my home.

Think it can't happen because you are not going to break the law. Ha think again.

I have disagreed with cal guns forum members in the past and still do in ways. But the FOUNDATION holds the check book that I don't have! Because of this I should have listened to their advise.

Plan out in detail HOW you will handle LEO encounters! What you will say if anything. Will you ID yourself? If not do not get in your own car. They will ID you from the car. Practice with a friend what you will say.

Check out these vids as an example.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1szBxnAEsMw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'll post more about what I'm going through when I can.

"If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

James Taranto

 

[Firemark]

I spent 6+ months reviewing all forum strings related to UOC, watched every video I could find on LE encounters with UOC, interviewed seasoned UOC'rs, talked with senior LE personnel.

YOU must be thoroughly prepared before you walk out your door. Not for every encounter, but for that 1 encounter, that one LEO who doesnt care about the law or rights or America, but just wants to teach you a lesson while stroking their own ego, and take joy in making you be submissive, by force if neccesary.

I carry 3 recording devices now just for this one type of encounter for my protection. 1 thats obvious and that I expect to get confiscated, and 2 others hidden and will hopefully catch the abuse of rights, for the court case later.

If you are not prepared to be cuffed or proned out or accidentally shot by an overzealous officer then you need to rethink why your doing UOC.

Carry in groups, watch each others backs, learn before you solo carry, this is a civil rights movement, and historically civil rights movements can be violent and dangerous and filled with anger and rage over changing the social norms.

 

[markm]

4th Amendment more than 2nd Amendment.

I spent 6+ months reviewing all forum strings related to UOC, watched every video I could find on LE encounters with UOC, interviewed seasoned UOC'rs, talked with senior LE personnel.

YOU must be thoroughly prepared before you walk out your door. Not for every encounter, but for that 1 encounter, that one LEO who doesnt care about the law or rights or America, but just wants to teach you a lesson while stroking their own ego, and take joy in making you be submissive, by force if neccesary.

I carry 3 recording devices now just for this one type of encounter for my protection. 1 thats obvious and that I expect to get confiscated, and 2 others hidden and will hopefully catch the abuse of rights, for the court case later.

If you are not prepared to be cuffed or proned out or accidentally shot by an overzealous officer then you need to rethink why your doing UOC.

Carry in groups, watch each others backs, learn before you solo carry, this is a civil rights movement, and historically civil rights movements can be violent and dangerous and filled with anger and rage over changing the social norms.

Hey Firemark,

You wrote: "...this is a civil rights movement..."

You are absolutely correct on that point. Would this site be popular if LEO were respectful of 4A rigths? Would this site be popular if LEO used discretion when dealing with people who were following state law while expressing their 2A rights?

No, most of us would not be posting on OCDO on a daily basis. The 4A violations are why most of us are here. The 4A violations are what prohibit many of us from using our 2A rights regularly.

Many LEOs are criminals who violate the highest law of the land.

I stand behind that harsh statement!

markm

 

[markm]

Hey ryanburbridge,

+1, I concur.

I even concur regarding Calguns. They are not the bogeyman. However, I take umbridge with some of their members who act like elitists.

markm

 

[ConditionThree]

BE PREPARED!

I am very pleased to see a posting that reaffirms what I have been trying to communicate since my first detention in 2007. As I see the parade of new screen names growing larger and larger, my concern is that others following this example are not making the necessary preparations.

We do not live in a time and place where a "Damn-the-torpedeos" or "charge-of-the-light-brigade" is either practical or desirable and there there are certain elements so moved by enthusiasm that do not seem to weigh out the consequences of their actions before exposing themselves to greater jeopardy than they seem able to counter.

You must contemplate what it is you will do when you have a police encounter. You must articulate what it is you will say in advance to those who will confront you about your choices. Even when you do that, it is no guarantee that things will play out as you imagine them. After multiple detentions, I dont believe that even I have it right yet.

This should give those who jump into open carry some pause, at least to evaluate just what sacrifices they are willing to make to stretch their liberty legs.

 

[Outdoorsman1]

Ok, I am realitivly new to OC. As I am in Wisconsin, this probably does not apply to me, but could somebody please explain what "UOC" stands for...

Thanks

Outdoorsman1

 

[Iopencarry]

UOC= unloaded open carry. In most of CA, we must be unloaded.

 

[Outdoorsman1]

Thanks.. I was thinking Unlawful Open Carry... glad I asked.

Outdoorsma1

 

[sharkey]

Ok, I am realitivly new to OC. As I am in Wisconsin, this probably does not apply to me, but could somebody please explain what "UOC" stands for...

Thanks

Outdoorsman1

Useless open carry. I mean unloaded open carry.

I do respect and admire all of you UOC'ers though. I can't imagine living in a place like that. You're right, it's a civil rights movement and you guys are actually taking risks to further all of our rights. Carry on!

 

[Iopencarry]

Useless open carry. I mean unloaded open carry.

I do respect and admire all of you UOC'ers though. I can't imagine living in a place like that. You're right, it's a civil rights movement and you guys are actually taking risks to further all of our rights. Carry on!

We all agree with you, but it is better then not being able to carry at all. I'll taker the 2 second load time over the 15 min 911 call out time any day.

 

[Firemark]

I am very pleased to see a posting that reaffirms what I have been trying to communicate since my first detention in 2007. As I see the parade of new screen names growing larger and larger, my concern is that others following this example are not making the necessary preparations.

We do not live in a time and place where a "Damn-the-torpedeos" or "charge-of-the-light-brigade" is either practical or desirable and there there are certain elements so moved by enthusiasm that do not seem to weigh out the consequences of their actions before exposing themselves to greater jeopardy than they seem able to counter.

You must contemplate what it is you will do when you have a police encounter. You must articulate what it is you will say in advance to those who will confront you about your choices. Even when you do that, it is no guarantee that things will play out as you imagine them. After multiple detentions, I dont believe that even I have it right yet.

This should give those who jump into open carry some pause, at least to evaluate just what sacrifices they are willing to make to stretch their liberty legs.

Some parallels from the 60's and the equal rights movement, there are such drastic differences between the image and actions of MLK as opposed to the Black Panther movement. Many people were not happy with the pace at which things were changing. Many peaceful protests and slow moving social dynamics did not fit into the idea of many who wanted immediate change and were willing to shake things up to get it done. With all that came out of that era, were the "damn the torpedos" and "charge the light brigade" tactics neccessary? Did they forward the movement or thwart it? Is it coincedence that MLK is the primary figure of that period and the success of social change?

I believe that MLK had it right and the slow and steady peaceful way coaxing the people along gently is the more effective method to affect change. It has the disadvantage of moving very slowly, especially when compared with todays idea of many people to have instant gratification and the quick victory.

Maybe there is a way to learn from the 60's civil rights protests, and in a more effective way combine the slow moving method with reckless enthusiasm. The images of militant black power from that era are part of our American history. But did it help or hurt the cause? Thats probably a discussion that would fill a whole different forum.

So will the various styles and types of 2A rights advocates learn from this and temper their stances to do as least as well or perhaps better than the 60's civil rights advocates? I hope that we can, whether its the NRA (600lb gorilla in the room) or CalGuns (Slow and Steady) or UOC'rs (tip of the spear). Can we make it work together or will we all fall apart fighting each other?

I agree with you Conditionthree, enthusiasm must be tempered with necessary preparations. Patience must be our virtue.

 

[mjones]

UOC= unloaded open carry. In most of CA, we must be unloaded.

In most of CA you can LOC - in urban CA UOC is generally necessary.

 

[GarrettSuchecki]

thanks for the info and admonishment, guys
As a super newbie to OC, I highly appreciate the input/advice

 

[markm]

No, not really...

In most of CA you can LOC - in urban CA UOC is generally necessary.

Hey mjones,

In strict legal terms you are correct; however, most of the land in Kali is private and not accessible to the general public. Forest Service land has many areas where shooting is prohibited. In areas where shooting is not prohibited, there are still buildings and campgrounds where shooting is prohibited. When you cross many county or state highways that cross non-prohibited shooting areas, an OCer must UOC across the road.

Yosemite, Federal wildlife refuges, other National Parks, State Refuges, DFG Refuges, are prohibited shooting areas. Yosemite NP has a statement on their website that claims to make it illegal to discharge a firearm even for self-defense purposes-- which is contrary to current state law (and the Coburn Amendment). Some DFG refuges prohibit possesion of guns. All state parks ban guns unless they are "locked" in your car or camper. Many BLM lands ban guns unless you are hunting for a specifc critter with a specific type of weapon and during the hunting season for that critter. Many FS wilderness areas are prohibited shooting areas (even though the FS restriction is in violation of 16 USC 480).

I can go on and on with examples.

When you quantify the number of square miles where a person can legally gain access to land and OC a weapon, it isn't very much. The majority of the state is off limits to the public, off limits to guns, or off limits to OC.

RKBA is not "alive and well" in Kali.

markm

 

[pullnshoot25]

With all the information available now about UOC, there is no excuse for being unprepared.

 

[JoeGlock40]

dang...reading all this makes me really happy to be in the gun friendly state of AZ...maybe more of you guys should just move out of that crappy state to a more free state where "the man" doesnt try to keep you down and control you ...just my 2cents...i love OC loaded and not havin any problems and CC almost anywhere

 

[Born2Lose]

dang...reading all this makes me really happy to be in the gun friendly state of AZ...maybe more of you guys should just move out of that crappy state to a more free state where "the man" doesnt try to keep you down and control you ...just my 2cents...i love OC loaded and not havin any problems and CC almost anywhere

With the economy the way it is that isn't usually feasible. Long gone are the days in construction where you could quit on a Friday and have a new job by Monday. If my company (biggest GC in S.D.) told me they had work for a few years in AZ I'd take it and never come back.

 

[ryanburbridge]

With all the information available now about UOC, there is no excuse for being unprepared.

This is correct!

But as with my case knowing the law and dealing with BAD LEO the wrong way will land you in a lot of trouble.

It's a very fine line of sticking up for your rights and landing in jail.

You MUST remain very calm and professional as you stand there and are violated!

I hope soon to be able to fill every one in on what I'm going through and why.

It's been a learning experience I hope other will not have to go through.

Stay CALM and REMAIN SILENT!

Have audio AND video to back up your side!

Carry on!


"If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

James Taranto