Woody1960 said:
if the police dont check id whats to stop a bad guy from carring just like the OC'er is?
I would rather just show him id and be on my way, then have 5 cars show up and really waste tax dollars.
If you want to give up your 4A right protecting you against unwarranted searches, you may.
Understand that's what you're doing; do it knowingly, not because it's convenient.
But by doing so you reinforce the belief, held by WAY too many LEO, that that's what should always happen, and therefore you make it harder for those of us who choose to protect our rights.
And if you get stopped every place you go - let's say you're running errands & go 6 places - and every time they stop you & seize your ID & run a check on you & maybe even seize your firearm & run a check on it it takes 10 minutes... they've wasted an hour of your day, plus all the police-related manpower.
(15 minutes x 6 = 1 1/2 hours.)
Think maybe it'd be more convenient to tell them "no" and go on with your errands?
Or maybe it'd be a hassle the first time, because they're not used to people standing up for their rights, but after that they should leave you alone. And if they don't, they'll leave you alone after the 1983 suit.
What's to stop a BG from OCing? They don't want attention.
Given the "totality of circumstances" - looking shifty, dressing wrong, whatever it is that says "bad guy" to the police - OCing would give a reason for police to do a felony takedown.
MarkD51 said:
in how many of those instances, will an LEO honestly confide, that he only stopped to question you, and asked for ID out of a personal curiosity?
...
I don't think I'd be feeling very comfortable
Most times, people who refuse to answer questions, refuse to provide ID, & consistently ask "why am I being detained?" are let go with little hassle.
BTW, don't ask "am I being detained", ask "WHY am I being detained".
Because that will put them on notice that you feel like you're not free to leave (the officer has made a show of force which you interpret as restraining your freedom to leave), AND s/he will probably be startled enough to reply that you're not being detained.
At which point you say, "good day then" and walk away.
If they stop you again, lather, rinse, repeat.
And for your dining pleasure, I present an assortment of legal citations:
"
The Claim and exercise of a Constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
Miller v. U.S.
"
The mere presence of firearms does not create exigent circumstances."
Wisconsin v. Kiekhefer
"
Stopping a car for no other reason than to check the license and registration was unreasonable under the 4th amendment."
Delaware v. Prouse
[IOW, police can't stop you unless they have RAS of a crime.]
"
Police conduct does not need to be egregious or outrageous in order to be coercive. Subtle pressures are considered to be coercive if they exceed the defendant’s ability to resist. Pressures that are not coercive in one set of circumstances may be coercive in another set of circumstances."
Wisconsin v. Hoppe
"
Mr. St. John’s lawful possession of a loaded firearm in a crowded place could not, by itself, create a reasonable suspicion sufficient to justify an investigatory detention."
St. John v. McColley [Alamogordo]
The Third Circuit found that
an individual’s lawful possession of a firearm in a crowded place did not justify a search or seizure.
United States v. Ubiles
The Tenth Circuit found that
an investigatory detention initiated by an officer after he discovered that the defendant lawfully possessed a loaded firearm lacked sufficient basis because the firearm alone did not create a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.
United States v. King