• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Silly liberals

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,327
Location
Roy, WA
So today I decided to have lunch with my family at a restaurant near where I was working. I wasn't sure what was nearby so I used the "around me" iPhone app. I found a place called "the Antique Sandwich Co." I thought it sounded good and wanted to try it out. I went inside and asked if I was to seat myself or not and the girl behind the counter said that I could pick a seat anywhere but to order at the counter. So I took a seat and waited a few minutes for my wife to arrive. When she got there I went out to help her with the kids and then we ordered and sat down. While eating for our food we see two cops enter and seem as though they were walking over to me! I was right. The cop asked if I was armed and I replied with a yes. He asked if i had a CPL, and i said yes. He then asked if it may have come out of concealment, to which I replied that I was OC. So he has me walk with him outside and while we were walking he made a point to tell me that he completely supports what I was doing by OC. We got outside and went through what seems to be the usual questions and I did inform him that having a CPL does NOT require you to conceal but that it merely gives you that option. I did allow him to disarm me (I figure the best time to be without a gun is when three cops are standing next to you). He was vaguely familiar with OCDO and said he's been meaning to get on here to learn more (apparently Tacoma Police hasn't trained that well on this topic). He said that he knew when he got the call that it would be nothing really because dispatch told him that I was there with my wife and kids. One of the officers went in to talk to the owner and see if they wanted me to leave or if it was ok to just cover up. I was able to cover up and go eat my lunch. The cop told me that it's just a liberal business. Afterward I went back to the job and told my brother about it and he said that that's just about the most liberal place in Tacoma. I guess they have open mic poetry night and everything. I guess I'll have to drop a pamphlet by there next time I'm by the zoo. Not too bad an outcome for the most liberal place to eat in Tacoma.
 

Jayd1981

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
The best time to be disarmed is ....... NEVER. They DO NOT have the right to disarm you absent RAS. Also if a business has a problem with me OC, I would much rather just leave than do business with them. Especially if they send the cops instead of just asking me themself.

Edit: Also, "Are you detaining me or am I free to go about my business?" would have been a good response to him asking you outside.
 
Last edited:
6

69Charger

Guest
You did what yo had to and so did the LEOs. They are coming around.
Now if we can just get Joe public on the same page, ALL will be good.
Glad it went over the way it did.
Dave
 

SpyderTattoo

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
1,017
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
You did what yo had to and so did the LEOs. They are coming around.
Now if we can just get Joe public on the same page, ALL will be good.
Glad it went over the way it did.
Dave

SAY WHAT???? WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! They did NOT do what they had to. What is with you guys lately, just bending over for this violation of your rights? SACK-UP and quit taking this from them!
 

ARADCOM

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
317
Location
NW Washington, Washington, USA
SAY WHAT???? WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! They did NOT do what they had to. What is with you guys lately, just bending over for this violation of your rights? SACK-UP and quit taking this from them!

I have to agree with SpyderTattoo on this. Aside from any issues with the way the police handled this the restaurant was way out of line.

They seated you, took your food order, and then called the cops on you! No way would I have stuck around or paid for my order. If they are that RUDE, no way am I going to be nice about it.

I don't know how old your kids are but I hope they're not old enough to learn a bad lesson from this encounter.
 
6

69Charger

Guest
Well I guess I don't "sack up" as much as others. LOL
US AGAINST THEM. LOL :)
Dave
 

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,327
Location
Roy, WA
Well the thing is, since we had to order at the counter, we also had to pay there. I stayed because I didn't feel like leaving my money as a donation. I know the cops didn't have the right to take my gun and that is why I said I "LET" them. I figure that there's no way I can be perceived as a threat if I most graciously let them disarm me. I don't think it will be long before they realize on their own that we're not a threat and they won't even think about it. I would much rather they figure it out willingly than being forced through a lawsuit that could actually hinder our cause. Remember that when the cops are around they ARE there to protect us. So again I say the best time to be disarmed is when three nice cops are standing next to you. I'm not going to give them an excuse to rough me up, or God forbid, something worse. On a side note, they were BSing with me about guns and were teasing me about how dusty mine was as I do work in construction. And I almost forgot, they DID NOT unload my gun before giving it back to me. They really are coming around to our side guys.
 

G20-IWB24/7

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
886
Location
Tacoma, WA, ,
Dave, on this and other recent topics, it has begun to bother me how much your comments of being subservient to LEOs going beyond the scope of their legal realm to disarm/detain/inconvenience people who are doing nothing wrong.

You 'laugh it off' when those of us who do stand up for our rights call you on it. Do you think we're all conspiracy-theorists wearing around aluminum foil hats? I just want law enforcement do enforce laws. I was not aware that they were allowed and encouraged to go beyond enforcing laws and go to enforcing their own opinions. That's not what my tax dollars pay for, nor is what could be considered reasonable in a country and state where there is a presumption of freedom.
 
6

69Charger

Guest
We seem to be on the same page Tom.
A lot of pages here.
Dave
 

jt59

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
1,025
Location
Central South Sound
Well the thing is, since we had to order at the counter, we also had to pay there. I stayed because I didn't feel like leaving my money as a donation. I know the cops didn't have the right to take my gun and that is why I said I "LET" them. I figure that there's no way I can be perceived as a threat if I most graciously let them disarm me. I don't think it will be long before they realize on their own that we're not a threat and they won't even think about it. I would much rather they figure it out willingly than being forced through a lawsuit that could actually hinder our cause. Remember that when the cops are around they ARE there to protect us. So again I say the best time to be disarmed is when three nice cops are standing next to you. I'm not going to give them an excuse to rough me up, or God forbid, something worse. On a side note, they were BSing with me about guns and were teasing me about how dusty mine was as I do work in construction. And I almost forgot, they DID NOT unload my gun before giving it back to me. They really are coming around to our side guys.

Mark Fulghum is one of the principle spokespersons for the TPD....He may be a contact. I rented him a house for a year or so while he was having his built....good guy, don't know what he might say, but he would likely have the inside skinny.

We go to the sandwich factory occasionally, liberal would be a good discription, environmental tree huggers would be another
 
Last edited:

Jayd1981

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
I can understand not wanting to be confrontational, however you are giving up your rights by doing anything they say. Yes police are there to protect the public as a whole; however they are not there to violate someone’s rights that are doing nothing wrong. Sure you can try being friendly and change their minds one by one and let them know you’re not a threat by giving up your 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendment rights. However I find it better to show them the error of their ways.

It is not easy to go against their authority, but if they are wrong then I believe it’s our duty as citizens and their employers to correct them. That can involve simply saying I do not consent to being disarmed or being searched. Or refuse their illegal demands (lock your vehicle in your car if you want to stay in this park as was my case). There are avenues for us to use to show them their actions are not only wrong but illegal. Why not take the opportunity to make a stand for yours and everyone else’s rights? I guess standing up for yourself can be too much of an inconvenience sometime, I only hope there are others that are willing to bear the burden then.
 
6

69Charger

Guest
Well we all have our 1st amendment right to voice our opinion.
I take my second amendment rights seriously.
My views may not live up to the expectations some have here, but such is life.
I like a little humor. That way I don't have to look all grumpy and mad at the world all the time. :)
Dave
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,463
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Tom you did well and you did what was best for you in the situation presented.

Confrontation is not the only way to effect change.

Sack Up lol now there is some big ego's at work :lol:.

69Charger well said.
 

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
The Cops BSing with you is a standard ploy to get you to let down your guard and talk to them. Always always always remember they are your best friend until you incriminate your self by some random unthought out statement and the cuffs will come out and jump onto your wrists before you even know what you did. Been there done that, talk to Cops at your own risk. Just my .02 worth.
 

MAndrew

Regular Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
26
Location
Olympia, WA, USA
Enviro tree huggers and sandwich shops don't mix well for me. All it took was one caterpillar on the lettuce in my sandwich to make me a believer in pesticides.

I would agree with that a LEO being buddy-buddy is usually just a ploy in a situation like that. Besides, if I'm eating then asking me to put my food down is asking a lot. Hmm, next time I go shooting I'm going to bring a sandwich to practice shooting and eating at the same time.
 

acmariner99

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
659
Location
Renton, Wa
To each their own. I prefer to be non-confrontational. I had a MWAG call on me when I first arrived in Everett and before I got my CPL. Thankfully the encounter went more along the lines of if I had any questions for them once they figured out they were wasting their time talking to a peaceful OCer. Since it was Everett and South Everett at that, I figured it was in my best interests to answer their questions (the ones they did ask me) and let them know that I was a frequent OCer. Turns out that doing so worked to my advantage a week later when confronting a severe nut case and having the store call it in -- no one was dispatched. My own experience leads me to conclude that it is at your own discretion. Cops are people too -- meaning they make mistakes, assume authority, and want to be put at ease when confronting someone with a weapon. Some may think that the OP let the police walk all over his rights, but being respectful and cooperative within limits can work to your advantage. Just my .02
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,675
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Do not go outside!

I also agree with SpyderTattoo! Enough with the unlawful contact. You were on private property and no where in your story did you mention the property owner asking you to leave. You were exercising a "fundamental" constitutional right. (McDonald v. Chicago). The police can NOT act as the party to ask you to leave. (I believe NavyLT is more versed on the dual party representation issue). If the property owner never asked you to leave then the police can do NOTHING!

I also would of politely asked for my money back and left. For a liberal establishment, the fact that they let you stay and take your money is filled with GREED! (What they claim to be against!)


I have to agree with SpyderTattoo on this. Aside from any issues with the way the police handled this the restaurant was way out of line.

They seated you, took your food order, and then called the cops on you! No way would I have stuck around or paid for my order. If they are that RUDE, no way am I going to be nice about it.

I don't know how old your kids are but I hope they're not old enough to learn a bad lesson from this encounter.

Well I guess I don't "sack up" as much as others. LOL
US AGAINST THEM. LOL :)
Dave

You said it, Dave.

Well the thing is, since we had to order at the counter, we also had to pay there. I stayed because I didn't feel like leaving my money as a donation. I know the cops didn't have the right to take my gun and that is why I said I "LET" them. I figure that there's no way I can be perceived as a threat if I most graciously let them disarm me. I don't think it will be long before they realize on their own that we're not a threat and they won't even think about it. I would much rather they figure it out willingly than being forced through a lawsuit that could actually hinder our cause. Remember that when the cops are around they ARE there to protect us. So again I say the best time to be disarmed is when three nice cops are standing next to you. I'm not going to give them an excuse to rough me up, or God forbid, something worse. On a side note, they were BSing with me about guns and were teasing me about how dusty mine was as I do work in construction. And I almost forgot, they DID NOT unload my gun before giving it back to me. They really are coming around to our side guys.

No they are not on your side. They are on the side of bad policy, very bad department policy. They are not there to protect us! The Supreme Court has said over and over they are not there to protect you.

Dave, on this and other recent topics, it has begun to bother me how much your comments of being subservient to LEOs going beyond the scope of their legal realm to disarm/detain/inconvenience people who are doing nothing wrong.

You 'laugh it off' when those of us who do stand up for our rights call you on it. Do you think we're all conspiracy-theorists wearing around aluminum foil hats? I just want law enforcement do enforce laws. I was not aware that they were allowed and encouraged to go beyond enforcing laws and go to enforcing their own opinions. That's not what my tax dollars pay for, nor is what could be considered reasonable in a country and state where there is a presumption of freedom.

Dave, you might want to familarize yourself with the 4th and 5th amendments. They are as important as the 1st and 2nd.

The Cops BSing with you is a standard ploy to get you to let down your guard and talk to them. Always always always remember they are your best friend until you incriminate your self by some random unthought out statement and the cuffs will come out and jump onto your wrists before you even know what you did. Been there done that, talk to Cops at your own risk. Just my .02 worth.

Exactly! Every thing you say can and WILL be used AGAINST you in a court of law. Do you see that it will not be used for you?!!!
 

G20-IWB24/7

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
886
Location
Tacoma, WA, ,
We are all entitled to our opinion, and I appreciate this and value the input of those I may not completely agree with. With this in mind, I guess I can see the viewpoint of "cooperation" where one is inconvenienced for a few minutes, maybe you meet a pair of handcuffs for a short while (like the Taco Bell incident in Vancouver), they take your gun away and run the serial number, you get made an 'example of' in front of dozens of other people, etc... but you walk away feeling that you did some good in 'teaching' the cops about OC.

But what about those of us who would like to go about our daily business WITHOUT having to deal with this type of situation? Is there a way that we can help the police differentiate between those of us who would like to be left alone versus those of us who are willing to be detained for a completely legal activity?
 

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,327
Location
Roy, WA
The Cops BSing with you is a standard ploy to get you to let down your guard and talk to them. Always always always remember they are your best friend until you incriminate your self by some random unthought out statement and the cuffs will come out and jump onto your wrists before you even know what you did. Been there done that, talk to Cops at your own risk. Just my .02 worth.

Don't worry, there will NEVER be anything to incriminate myself about.
 
Top