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Situational Awareness and Open Carry
- Thread starter ScottE
- Start date
Real picture or staged? Patently staged.
We deal in facts, reality here: no "store" in evidence, might easily be a paddle attachment w/narrow belt.
It is quite obviously a "set up" picture with someone touching the handgun - points to situational awareness, nothing else.
Its a typical get-your-attention, manufactured photo - not at all as you present it.
OC for ME
Regular Member
Photoshop.
A complete waste of space and an insult to everyone's intelligence.
I originally deleted the thread - then thought it better to show how far some people will go to discredit us.
eye95
Well-known member
Hey, OP. I'll take you off ignore for you to answer the charges that that photo is manufactured--if you can.
Well?
You could identify the someone and the forum and let us check it out for ourselves. Until then, I think you have posted excellent support for why I give you zero credibility and have put you on ignore.
Well?
You could identify the someone and the forum and let us check it out for ourselves. Until then, I think you have posted excellent support for why I give you zero credibility and have put you on ignore.
Fallschirjmäger
Active member
Why would the lack of a belt indicate that the photo has been manipulated?
The SERPA comes with both belt and paddle mounts and both are decent. Heck, I use the belt mount because it was easier to put on and take off than the paddle mount.
The SERPA comes with both belt and paddle mounts and both are decent. Heck, I use the belt mount because it was easier to put on and take off than the paddle mount.
Don't think anyone made the statement that the lack of a belt indicated that the photo had been manipulated.
People regularly determine photoshops - generally by pixilation, color, texture etc.
N605TW
Activist Member
Staged or not I feel the point is conveyed. Everyone should keep an eye out for possible danger.
The photo does not show a Serpa paddle attachment, therefore it must be a belt atttachment. Look at the middle image here http://www.blackhawk.com/product/cqc-paddle-platform-wscrews,328,82.htm and note the extended top of the paddle attachment. Compare it with what's seen in the photo. If it were a paddle you should see that extended top under the pointing finger - but all you see is the belt slots.
As for whether or not the person's situational awareness has been compromised - merely coming up behind someone and pointing does not indicate a compromise. And even if there were a lapse, the use of a retention holster (and since Serpa fixed that problem of the release becoming jammed years ago Serpa is not a bad choice) indicates that the carrier has taken steps to avoid a simple gun grab.
So, what's the problem?
And in case anybody wants to know, I am, as a matter of fact, somewhat of an expert on the issue of pointing.
stay safe.
As for whether or not the person's situational awareness has been compromised - merely coming up behind someone and pointing does not indicate a compromise. And even if there were a lapse, the use of a retention holster (and since Serpa fixed that problem of the release becoming jammed years ago Serpa is not a bad choice) indicates that the carrier has taken steps to avoid a simple gun grab.
So, what's the problem?
And in case anybody wants to know, I am, as a matter of fact, somewhat of an expert on the issue of pointing.
stay safe.
Aknazer
Regular Member
Looks fake to me. As pointed out it looks like the belt attachment but yet there's no belt. There's also the fact that the gun looks like it goes up into the guy's armpit, and the gun blur compared to the blur of the rest of the picture seems off to me as well.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
While I feel the photo is a fake, there is a possibility there was some glue involved in the posting of the photo. IYKWIM
Michigander
Regular Member
If you have a serpa, try jamming it. They improved it some, but it is still very possible to jam it.
When you further consider the Tex Grebner issue, the obvious nature of what the release mechanism is, and the much more minor issue of finish wear, the Serpa fails miserably in comparison to the Safariland models.
I used to defend the Serpa system, but seriously, take a long, hard, non biased look at the Serpa. It is not deserving of the popularity is has.
The belt (and belt loops) ought to be about 1/2 inch above the bottom of the shirt. Can't see them, so can't say for sure they are there. But by eliminating the paddle holster profile and confirming the belt slide profile it is probable that the belt does exist.
stay safe.
I can jam an open-top holster. Does that win me a bigger prize than the one for jamming a Serpa? (If not, how about jamming Mexican carry? 'Cause I can do that, too.)
Evwery holster, including your beloved Safarilands, has inherent faults. Mr. Grabner screwed up - it was not a fault of the holster but of the shooter. The worst than could be said is that a small subset of Serpa users do not pay sufficient and proper heed to the manual of arms for the holster and wind up having one or more things gp wrong. I believe that the same could be said for inappropriate use/misuse of any impliment.
The worst that can be said about the Serpa in comparison to the Safariland is that the placement of the release mechanism makes it easier for those who do not follow proper procedures to have that create unwanted consequences. (Unless, of course, you shill for one brand or the other.)
stay safe.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Two simple methods will solve the problem with all holsters. Keep the safety on, if the gun has one, until pointed in a safe direction. Keep the nose picking finger out of the trigger guard until pointed in a safe direction.
Michigander
Regular Member
If there is a fault to the Safariland, please name it, because I don't yet know of it.
The issue is not a small subset of Serpa users, but rather a large number of people who are either unaware, or unwilling to listen to a large number of well respected full time firearm instructors, as well as a large number of people who have had issues with them both due to jamming as well as the mechanism putting your moving finger too close to the trigger. For those who don't know, Safariland models leave your trigger finger to do nothing on your draw stroke other than stay away from the trigger.
Anyone is free to make up their own mind, and it's lucky that the only real danger is such a user blowing a hole in their leg. The issue I have is that newer carriers who are just starting out can easily buy into the hype about serpas because of their availability and hype online. I would generally call it a disservice to newer carriers to have a one sided discussion on Serpas, (not unlike gun magazines one sided love for 1911s,) thus I find it incredibly important to point these things out.
Michigander
Regular Member
While this is true, an opinion many including myself hold is that a manual safety doesn't belong on a fighting gun, and that even if you have one that it should never be counted on. So counting on it for a 1911, then using a holster which requires your trigger finger to press into the holster, it ends up being pretty dangerous.
This is the best summary of the issue which I know of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDpxVG9XFJc
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
I have seen that video~~Pfft! A modern, properly operating firearm like the 1911 does not fire unless the trigger is pulled. I saw Tex's video, and I clearly saw the problem and it was not the holster, or the gun.
Michigander
Regular Member
I do not understand your point, since no one is debating that. In fact that is a further demonstration of my point, if anything, since the trigger being pulled accidentally/negligently is what the problem is with your holster requiring fine motor skills from your trigger finger in order to draw.
If it can happen while trying to practice, then it could very easily happen in a life and death fight.