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So you want to buy a gun.

T.Reed

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
13
Location
Ruidoso, New Mexico
If you are thinking of buying a gun here are some things you should probably know.
Owning a gun won’t make you taller, more popular, a better lover or dancer. If you are a jack ass now owning a gun won’t change that fact. So if you are thinking of buying a gun to improve your image, then go buy a puppy.

This is for first time gun owner that are thinking of buying a gun. They are the minimum requirements. If you have anything to add or believe is incorrect please feel free to make comment.

Second: These are the rules and always have been.


1. The best weapon you have is between your ears. Use that wisely and you will never have reason to doubt your actions.
2. A gun is not a toy or a pointing device, it is a deadly weapon and can end a life in an instant. Don’t point your weapon at anything you don’t wish to kill.
3. A gun is not a bargaining chip. If you point your weapon as someone use it. If you don’t plan on using it don’t point it at someone. You are not a cop.
4. Keep your finger off the trigger, keep your finger off the trigger, and keep your finger off the trigger.
5. Keep your weapon pointed in the direction of the threat.
6. Know your target
7. There is no such thing as a warning shot.
8. Bullets will go through walls. Even little bullets.
9. Bullets will go through people
10. Keep your gun clean and your ammo fresh.
11. Shooting is a diminishing skill. Practice often.
12. Bringing a gun to a knife fight is fair. Many gun owners have been cut to pieces by knife wielders thinking that it was not a fair fight.
13. A gun will not grant you respect or instant authority.
14. Know your laws and follow them. As the gun owner it is your responsibility to know your State and Federal laws. The law expects you as a gun owner to know and follow those laws.

15. Nothing above prevents or reduces the skills of a woman to use and operate a gun with proficiency. All the same rules apply and anyone that believes that a woman can not use a firearm with accuracy may find them self very dead.

16. KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER!
Forgot one. and it is actually the most important one. 17. Your guns is always loaded. The first time you assume it isn't is when you will shoot yourself or someone else. ALWAYS assume your gun is loaded.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,224
Location
northern wis
3. A gun is not a bargaining chip. If you point your weapon as someone use it. If you don’t plan on using it don’t point it at someone. You are not a cop.
.
.
The problem with this statement is that defensive firearm uses are very fluid, the dynamics can change in a split second and the situation can change from a shoot to no shoot in a split second.

It also ignores the fact that a large percentage of defensive firearm uses do not require shots to be fired.

If you have it in your head that you well always shoot if you pull your firearm. You could very well find yourself on the wrong side of the law.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
It is really none of my business why a person wants a gun, as long as they are buying it for legal purposes. It is none of yours.
 

T.Reed

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
13
Location
Ruidoso, New Mexico
The problem with this statement is that defensive firearm uses are very fluid, the dynamics can change in a split second and the situation can change from a shoot to no shoot in a split second.

It also ignores the fact that a large percentage of defensive firearm uses do not require shots to be fired.

If you have it in your head that you well always shoot if you pull your firearm. You could very well find yourself on the wrong side of the law.
Still I stick to my "Guns" your gun is not a bargaining chip. When you pull your weapon you must be ready to use it. If not then you really have no real need to be carrying around a gun. Going on 40 and some years carrying with rule one always on top. The best weapon is between your ears. I have been in too many situations where people have pulled out guns with the impression that just showing their weapon was all it would take, then seeing the confused look on their faces when the person on the receiving end wasn't impressed. If you pull your weapon you must be consciously prepared and ready to use it. Again, the average citizen is not a police officer they are not trained or qualified to do police work. There is no possible way you are going to get 14 to 25 weeks of police training into a CCW owner in three days. The most you are going to do is freeze them up with information overload. The only time a civilian should be drawing their weapon is if their life or someone else's life is in immediate danger. I suppose that makes me very dangerous because I will not draw my weapon until I have too. When I do someone is going to be shot. I am not in the business of police work I am not going to arrest or detain people who are waving a gun or knife around and threatening me or other peoples life's. I am going to kill them, period. I have had shoot or no shoot situations and they have always been gun out shoot. Why? Because I am not a cop. At FLETC I have had students playing around with air softs with the tips removed and had to take them away from them. But guess what. I didn't take my weapon out, I just took their toys away. Back to using the primary weapon first. The one between your ears. There are just too many variances and not enough time for all the shoot or don't shoot events that can and do happen to be drilled into a CC head in three days. Hell even cops who have been drilled continuously screw up because they don't have enough shoot or don't shoot training. The only thing a cc needs to know is, "Is your life or the life of someone else in in immediate danger." If not keep you gun in your holster you are not a cop it is not your job to bust the bad guys. Your CC is for self defense or in the defense of others PERIOD. You start down the road of trying to be a cop I can guarantee you will be having to answer question that you are not prepared to answer. For the average Joe the right answer is if you point a gun at someone it better be for a damn good reason and you better be pulling the trigger. If not don't be pointing the gun at them. So here is another rule. Bringing a gun into a situation sometimes just escalates the problem. Know when to draw your weapon.
 

T.Reed

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
13
Location
Ruidoso, New Mexico
It is really none of my business why a person wants a gun, as long as they are buying it for legal purposes. It is none of yours.
Don't really care if they do or don't buy a gun. Just putting down some of the rules for those that are thinking of buying a gun. Things that gun owners should know and should adhere to. It was not a question of should you buy and gun but what you should do if you are considering buying a gun. As for my comment, "If you are buying a gun thinking it will improve your image then you are sadly mistaken. Go get a puppy instead." still stands. Call me selfish but I like my gun the less idiots there are out there doing stupid things the more likely I am going to be able to keep mine. So in a way it is my business. Because contrary to popular belief, the Second Amendment can be repealed.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,224
Location
northern wis
I too have seen situations where people have not been impressed but also I seen situations when it change from a deadly force situation to a non deadly force situation during the draw, hands when up in the air during the draw.

As you stated Self defense situations are very dynamic and change very rapidly.

To have such a hard and fast rule as one always needs to shoot is a recipe for disaster.

Disarming some one during training and taking away TOYs when you know there is no possible way your going to get shot is totally different the when one has a real loaded firearm pointed at them by some crazy.

Not that it can not be done but it sure adds a lot more risk in doing so

And I am speaking with 40 plus years carrying a firearm and LEO experience also.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
Don't really care if they do or don't buy a gun. Just putting down some of the rules for those that are thinking of buying a gun. Things that gun owners should know and should adhere to. It was not a question of should you buy and gun but what you should do if you are considering buying a gun. As for my comment, "If you are buying a gun thinking it will improve your image then you are sadly mistaken. Go get a puppy instead." still stands. Call me selfish but I like my gun the less idiots there are out there doing stupid things the more likely I am going to be able to keep mine. So in a way it is my business. Because contrary to popular belief, the Second Amendment can be repealed.
Put rules down for yourself, you have no authority to put them down for anyone. Plain, and simple go pound sand.
 

willy1094

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
199
Location
Nothern KY
I too have seen situations where people have not been impressed but also I seen situations when it change from a deadly force situation to a non deadly force situation during the draw, hands when up in the air during the draw.

As you stated Self defense situations are very dynamic and change very rapidly.

To have such a hard and fast rule as one always needs to shoot is a recipe for disaster.

Disarming some one during training and taking away TOYs when you know there is no possible way your going to get shot is totally different the when one has a real loaded firearm pointed at them by some crazy.

Not that it can not be done but it sure adds a lot more risk in doing so

And I am speaking with 40 plus years carrying a firearm and LEO experience also.
I've always understood this rule to mean don't pull your weapon unless you are justified to shoot. That does not mean you HAVE to shoot. In other words, you don't pull your weapon just to scare someone when, if pushed, you would not be justified in shooting that person. If the threat stops before a shot if fired, no shot needed/warranted.
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,623
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
I've always understood this rule to mean don't pull your weapon unless you are justified to shoot. That does not mean you HAVE to shoot. In other words, you don't pull your weapon just to scare someone when, if pushed, you would not be justified in shooting that person. If the threat stops before a shot if fired, no shot needed/warranted.
Agrreed---- If I am in a situation where I "draw," I may fire, but iot is not a given! I may feel that I was justified to fire! But, the decision to fire is when the target is in the sights, the backgroud seems adequate for safety of others, the BG's negative and felonious behavior continues, I am in fear for life or severe injury to myself or others in my immediate vicinity, and my finger is THEN PLACED IN THE TRIGGER GUARD and begins to press/squeeze to the rear! All of which can be stopped at an instant if conditions warrant. While I may carry for self defense I have no desire or want to take the life of another--- but I believe I will if needed!
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,224
Location
northern wis
I've always understood this rule to mean don't pull your weapon unless you are justified to shoot. That does not mean you HAVE to shoot. In other words, you don't pull your weapon just to scare someone when, if pushed, you would not be justified in shooting that person. If the threat stops before a shot if fired, no shot needed/warranted.
Exactly but the rule was but out as always shoot
 

Urban Youth

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
27
Location
Washington, D.C
10. Keep your gun clean and your ammo fresh.
Not really a good idea. It's better to clean the gun you plan on carrying before a range trip and then running 2 or 3 magazines worth of ammunition through it and then loading your choice of self defense cartridges for carry to make sure you:

1.) Have a working firearm
2.) Actually put the gun back together correctly

Just because the gun worked before you took it apart doesn't mean it will work when you put it back together. So long as you're not shooting corrosive ammunition and don't overdo it on the oil/lube, you can ensure your gun still functions while not getting dirty and not taking it apart.

As for keeping your ammo "fresh", modern cartridges are designed to maintain their integrity for as long as possible, so you won't have to worry about corrosion of the brass casings/bullet jackets or moisture affecting the smokeless powder for any reasonable amount of time unless you store your guns and ammunition improperly. You can safely keep your gun loaded for several months and you won't have to worry about anything, unless that loaded gun you're storing is in the trunk of your car or your garage in a location where the outside temperature is 110f with 80% humidity every day of the year.

The only reason why it would be a good idea to keep your ammo "fresh" would be that the more you shoot that particular gun, the better you're going to get. It just allows you more practice time, but other than that specific reason the logic behind it is almost entirely based off of Fudd lore of yore.
 

T.Reed

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
13
Location
Ruidoso, New Mexico
Not really a good idea. It's better to clean the gun you plan on carrying before a range trip and then running 2 or 3 magazines worth of ammunition through it and then loading your choice of self defense cartridges for carry to make sure you:

1.) Have a working firearm
2.) Actually put the gun back together correctly

Just because the gun worked before you took it apart doesn't mean it will work when you put it back together. So long as you're not shooting corrosive ammunition and don't overdo it on the oil/lube, you can ensure your gun still functions while not getting dirty and not taking it apart.

As for keeping your ammo "fresh", modern cartridges are designed to maintain their integrity for as long as possible, so you won't have to worry about corrosion of the brass casings/bullet jackets or moisture affecting the smokeless powder for any reasonable amount of time unless you store your guns and ammunition improperly. You can safely keep your gun loaded for several months and you won't have to worry about anything, unless that loaded gun you're storing is in the trunk of your car or your garage in a location where the outside temperature is 110f with 80% humidity every day of the year.

The only reason why it would be a good idea to keep your ammo "fresh" would be that the more you shoot that particular gun, the better you're going to get. It just allows you more practice time, but other than that specific reason the logic behind it is almost entirely based off of Fudd lore of yore.
Guess it's old military training. Keep your weapon clean, I never really had to worry about old rounds. What ever I carry is what I shoot up first before I go to the ball rounds. Then when I am finished I always make sure my weapon is clean and loaded with the deadly rounds. Funny never had one not shoot. Guess I just got lucky all those years. Kind of like never having an AD. Don't mean I won't have one just means I haven't had one. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. Is always a good rule. I don't like to get into too many habits with fire arms, because it can get you into trouble, but the habits I do have seem to have kept me out of trouble.
 
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T.Reed

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
13
Location
Ruidoso, New Mexico
Exactly but the rule was but out as always shoot
Okay it's a matter of mind set. I have been in more situations where I would have been justified to shoot and didn't. Admittedly I have been in situations where I should have shot and didn't. (Lucky for them) And sometimes when laying in bed banged up to the point that you have to crawl to get to the bathroom I have asked myself, "Why didn't you just shoot the *******?" It has always been in the back of my mind, if you pull your weapon you are going to shoot what is in front of you.
I had a psych professor state that if you know you will shoot when you pull your weapon then the other person knows it too. There is something in your body language that conveys the message to the other person. "You are going to die!" as compared to someone that is not prepared to shoot. Depending on the person you are facing they very well may read your body language and call your bluff. You must have it made up in your mind that when you pull your weapon you are going to shoot that person. No if's and or buts about it. I will concede, What they do will decide if I shoot or not. But when I pull a weapon I plan on using it. In 40 years I have carried I have only pulled it once and it wasn't necessary to use it. The dude dropped the knife without even being told to do so. Why? Because he knew I was going to shoot him. Nor would I have told him to drop the knife. A man with a knife standing five feet from you can close the distance between you and him in half a second. It takes a second to say, "Drop the knife." I was going to shoot him, it was my intent to shoot him, and if he hadn't of dropped it, I would have shot him. I pulled my weapon with the intent of shooting him. Anytime I pull my weapon it is with the intent to shoot. What they do may change that intent but they better be very quick to do so. I have been told I have been lucky. And it's very possible that I have never been in the right place and never the wrong time and the methods I have used always worked for me. Well maybe it's true, but I have pulled security in places like Del Paso in Sacramento CA. and in Highlands in San Bernardino CA. to unknown places like Roswell, New Mexico. Believe me there really are Aliens in Roswell, New Mexico. Rule number one has always been my best rule. "Use your head. It is and will always be your best weapon." That, and don't be an *******. It's not that I doubt you or your methods. But the whole shoot don't shoot thing is really not for me. I have been trained that if I pull my weapon it is with the intent to shoot, that is my plan and I have every intention of carrying it out. I will add that what the other guy does will decide if I shoot or not. I still hold to my guns. If you pull your weapon you must be willing, ready and able to shoot. If not don't carry.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,364
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Wowwie!!!

Okay it's a matter of mind set. I have been in more situations where I would have been justified to shoot and didn't. Admittedly I have been in situations where I should have shot and didn't. (Lucky for them) And sometimes when laying in bed banged up to the point that you have to crawl to get to the bathroom I have asked myself, "Why didn't you just shoot the *******?" It has always been in the back of my mind, if you pull your weapon you are going to shoot what is in front of you.
I had a psych professor state that if you know you will shoot when you pull your weapon then the other person knows it too. There is something in your body language that conveys the message to the other person. "You are going to die!" as compared to someone that is not prepared to shoot. Depending on the person you are facing they very well may read your body language and call your bluff. You must have it made up in your mind that when you pull your weapon you are going to shoot that person. No if's and or buts about it. I will concede, What they do will decide if I shoot or not. But when I pull a weapon I plan on using it. In 40 years I have carried I have only pulled it once and it wasn't necessary to use it. The dude dropped the knife without even being told to do so. Why? Because he knew I was going to shoot him. Nor would I have told him to drop the knife. A man with a knife standing five feet from you can close the distance between you and him in half a second. It takes a second to say, "Drop the knife." I was going to shoot him, it was my intent to shoot him, and if he hadn't of dropped it, I would have shot him. I pulled my weapon with the intent of shooting him. Anytime I pull my weapon it is with the intent to shoot. What they do may change that intent but they better be very quick to do so. I have been told I have been lucky. And it's very possible that I have never been in the right place and never the wrong time and the methods I have used always worked for me. Well maybe it's true, but I have pulled security in places like Del Paso in Sacramento CA. and in Highlands in San Bernardino CA. to unknown places like Roswell, New Mexico. Believe me there really are Aliens in Roswell, New Mexico. Rule number one has always been my best rule. "Use your head. It is and will always be your best weapon." That, and don't be an *******. It's not that I doubt you or your methods. But the whole shoot don't shoot thing is really not for me. I have been trained that if I pull my weapon it is with the intent to shoot, that is my plan and I have every intention of carrying it out. I will add that what the other guy does will decide if I shoot or not. I still hold to my guns. If you pull your weapon you must be willing, ready and able to shoot. If not don't carry.
you are such a BSer!!!
the bolded above puts the lie to all that you have been lecturing us about.
your credibility was lacking before,, now it is gone...
 

Urban Youth

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
27
Location
Washington, D.C
Guess it's old military training. Keep your weapon clean, I never really had to worry about old rounds. What ever I carry is what I shoot up first before I go to the ball rounds. Then when I am finished I always make sure my weapon is clean and loaded with the deadly rounds. Funny never had one not shoot. Guess I just got lucky all those years. Kind of like never having an AD. Don't mean I won't have one just means I haven't had one. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. Is always a good rule. I don't like to get into too many habits with fire arms, because it can get you into trouble, but the habits I do have seem to have kept me out of trouble.
Yeah I've heard some funny stories about guys in basic having to clean their rifles perfectly, so they take them in to the shower and scrub them down with their toothbrushes. If they weren't immaculate then they got smoked. Those rifles ended up getting replaced and the Drill Instructors were baffled as to why the rifles were always covered in rust.

I'm not saying to shoot several hundred rounds through your gun and leave it dirty, though. I'm just saying that it's a very good idea to shoot your gun after you've taken it apart and and clean it. It doesn't matter who you are or what gun you carry, you want to know your gun is working before you carry it.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,826
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Yeah I've heard some funny stories about guys in basic having to clean their rifles perfectly, so they take them in to the shower and scrub them down with their toothbrushes.
I've never taken an M16 into the showers with me but I have made use of the wash basins in the latrines. The military usually has steam heat and that water is industrial strength HOT most times. Brake cleaner ran a close second but I must say that more weapons were probably worn out through overzealous cleaning than through being shot in anger (at least until the last decade or so.) Today, I don't do detail cleaning, I'd rather have a rifle that's wet when I reach for it than one that might need to be lubed up before the sexytimes begins.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,224
Location
northern wis
I field strip and clean my carry guns every time I shoot them. I detail strip and clean the, once a year or so.

Some my practice guns don't get clean for months and many many rounds then only when they start having problems or I am going to use them for serious work.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
The military cleaning was more about discipline than it was function. If a gun will not work going into combat with light carbon it should not be issued.

I currently do not get anal about cleaning, they get cleaned after shooting, and once a year for rust prevention. Ones I carry get rubbed down when used to prevent rust, unless they are tupperware. The only time I take a gun down to it's basic parts is if the gun has been submerged in water. This has only happened once to me, fell in a creek. Fortunately the gun was my 1911 which is very easy to tear down to all the individual parts. That's one of the reasons I am a 1911 snob, yea that's right if you don't have a 1911 you are one of the unwashed masses.
 
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