Something is going to give soon. Either Concealed Carry, Or Open Carry is going to be Illegal

[Bailenforcer]

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wally1120 wrote:

I was listening to the Armed American Radio, And there is a possibility of Open Carry, Or Concealed Carry might be Illegal. If Concealed Carry is going to be outlawed then Open Carry Laws will have to be lightened up won`t they? Would anyone be able to carry in a vehicle, establishment that sells alcoholic beverages, ETC? If Open Carry is outlawed then would anyone be able to Carry Concealed with out going thru all of the bull crap process that people are required right now?

It makes no sense really.
Concealed carry has it's roots in self protection in areas where open carry would be detrimental. As an investigator the last thing I needed was to be outed by the gun(s) I carried. I often worked plain clothes. Open carry is fine for anyone who chooses it as it suits them, but for some of us the display of a holstered wepons caused problems during certain investigative situations.

Granny doesn't need to have a magnum on her hip for every thug to see, I would rather have granny concealed carry because she won't be able to resist a physical confrontation. The element of surprise best suits her situation.


Frankly we need to do as Vermont and have NO permit required carry for NON felons. Lets register the crimianls not the honest law abiding people.

 

[wally1120]

imported post

Bailenforcer wrote:

wally1120 wrote:

I was listening to the Armed American Radio, And there is a possibility of Open Carry, Or Concealed Carry might be Illegal. If Concealed Carry is going to be outlawed then Open Carry Laws will have to be lightened up won`t they? Would anyone be able to carry in a vehicle, establishment that sells alcoholic beverages, ETC? If Open Carry is outlawed then would anyone be able to Carry Concealed with out going thru all of the bull crap process that people are required right now?

It makes no sense really.
Concealed carry has it's roots in self protection in areas where open carry would be detrimental. As an investigator the last thing I needed was to be outed by the gun(s) I carried. I often worked plain clothes. Open carry is fine for anyone who chooses it as it suits them, but for some of us the display of a holstered wepons caused problems during certain investigative situations.

Granny doesn't need to have a magnum on her hip for every thug to see, I would rather have granny concealed carry because she won't be able to resist a physical confrontation. The element of surprise best suits her situation.


Frankly we need to do as Vermont and have NO permit required carry for NON felons. Lets register the crimianls not the honest law abiding people.

I like your thinking of having NO PERMITS for CC. After all that is what the CONSTITUTION SAYS.

 

[sasha601]

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CC will not be banned - no way. Here is why:

- It will cause tremendous uproar from current CPL holders. Remember, the number of CPL holders grew just from a few thousand 10 years ago to over 200,000 or so today and growing. This is a lot of unhappy constituents
- Politicians learned very well that anti-gun agendas do not bring a lot of political benefits. May be scoring short term points but a loosing position.
- Dozens of states became "shall issue" in the last 15 years. No state ever reversed its "shall issue" laws

I strongly believe that OC will not be banned either:

- Language in Michigan Constitution is very definitive. It says: "Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state." According to my research virtually any state that prohibits OC has something in it Constitution that allows this prohibition. For example, Texas prohibits OC. Sure enough, its Constitution is written in the way that allows it. It says: "Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime"
See the difference? My poit is that prohibiting OC in Michigan will surely require a Constitutional Amendment. History shows, that heavy public demand or outcry is needed to force a Constitutional Amendment. I do not see this happening with OC. Just a bunch of unhappy police chiefs gun haters is not enough. Last time Michigan amended its constitution was when we introduced cap on property values. This happened because virtually every homeowner was hurting due to skyrocketing property taxes due to skyrocketing home values. So, no OC is here to stay.

 

[James_Liv_Co]

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defcon1 wrote:

Concealed carry is a state licensed and taxed privilege for the few while open carry is the right for all Michigan citizens.

No, it's not. The right to bear arms is in the Constitution, but the way in which that is done is up to the Legislature. In addition, the Constitution can be changed by ballot initiative. Unlikely, but possible. It means you have to be on your best behavior not to jeopardize the exercise of your rights.


If the legislature attempted to eliminate open carry, they would be illegally taking away the right mentioned in the state constitution.

No. The Supreme Court case in DC only said that the absolute prohibition by the DC City Council of ANY ownership was unreasonable. They further said that ownership is subject to reasonable rules and restrictions. It's just that D.C.'s total ban on gun ownership was not reasonable.

And, at this point in time,the political backlash for trying to eliminate concealed carry would be enormous.

Depends. If there are a boat-load of incidents getting bad press, political climates can easily change. Don't rock the boat.


Not that there aren't plenty of idiot gun-grabbers out there who would love to take your guns, but they are not the majority.


But support for open carry is likewise not a majority- it's just a small segment of the population. The majority, if there is one, is somewhere in between those to ends of the political spectrum. Lots of people think owning a gun is a right, but carrying one in public should be subject to increased regulation.

The rumor is just that.....a rumor, the wishful thinking of those who hate concealed carry, open carry, or any citizen exercising their right and responsibility to defend themselves, their family, their community, their State, or their nation.



Pollingreport.com:

[align=left]"In general, do you feel the laws covering the sale of handguns should be made more strict, less strict, or kept as they are now?"[/align]4/22-26/09

More Strict: 60%
Less Strict: 7%
Kept as they are: 32%
Unsure: 1%

Source: http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

 

[PDinDetroit]

imported post

James_Liv_Co wrote:

defcon1 wrote:

Concealed carry is a state licensed and taxed privilege for the few while open carry is the right for all Michigan citizens.

No, it's not. The right to bear arms is in the Constitution, but the way in which that is done is up to the Legislature. In addition, the Constitution can be changed by ballot initiative. Unlikely, but possible. It means you have to be on your best behavior not to jeopardize the exercise of your rights.


If the legislature attempted to eliminate open carry, they would be illegally taking away the right mentioned in the state constitution.

No. The Supreme Court case in DC only said that the absolute prohibition by the DC City Council of ANY ownership was unreasonable. They further said that ownership is subject to reasonable rules and restrictions. It's just that D.C.'s total ban on gun ownership was not reasonable.

And, at this point in time,the political backlash for trying to eliminate concealed carry would be enormous.

Depends. If there are a boat-load of incidents getting bad press, political climates can easily change. Don't rock the boat.


Not that there aren't plenty of idiot gun-grabbers out there who would love to take your guns, but they are not the majority.


But support for open carry is likewise not a majority- it's just a small segment of the population. The majority, if there is one, is somewhere in between those to ends of the political spectrum. Lots of people think owning a gun is a right, but carrying one in public should be subject to increased regulation.

The rumor is just that.....a rumor, the wishful thinking of those who hate concealed carry, open carry, or any citizen exercising their right and responsibility to defend themselves, their family, their community, their State, or their nation.



Pollingreport.com:

[align=left]"In general, do you feel the laws covering the sale of handguns should be made more strict, less strict, or kept as they are now?"[/align]4/22-26/09

More Strict: 60%
Less Strict: 7%
Kept as they are: 32%
Unsure: 1%

Source: http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

Dude, cherry-pick data much? You should AT LEAST source the one you used:

CBS News/New York Times Poll. April 22-26, 2009. N=973 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

There are NO METRICS about the DEMOGRAPHIC BREAKDOWN for the poll. Not Good!

Here is my cherry-picked data from the same source that at least provide some baseline metric (like already owning guns):

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. April 21-24, 2009. N=1,072 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).

"What do you think is the best way to reduce gun violence in this country: by passing stricter gun control laws, or by stricter enforcement of existing laws?" Options rotated. Half sample.

Stricter Laws 27%
Stricter Enforcement 61%
Both (vol.) 5%
Neither (vol.) 4%
Unsure 2%

"Do you or does anyone in your house own a gun, or not?"

Yes 41%
No 58%