State Fair?

[BB62]

Quite a number of us are watching what develops, Jon B.

 

[AH.74]

We have since turned in our signatures and the party is on the ballot in New Mexico.

Jon,

This is the first I have heard of this. Thanks for the work you're doing.

The party is on the ballot for what exactly?

 

[Jon B]

Constitution Party of New Mexico

We are a minor (third) party that supports the Constitution 100% with no wavering. We will have candidates for office in New Mexico through 2016 and hopefully beyond. We have nominated Michael Lunnon for sheriff of McKinley county and he will be on that county ballot under the Constitution party in 2014. The party has been on the ballot since 1992. You may call 505-508-3607 for more information.

Jon

 

[phil1979]

Any progress on this? Anyone try to OC there since? It is public land owned by a state agency, so how can they prevent you from carrying there? I'd CC to get in, and then take my extra shirt off in the restroom and OC. If they arrest me, then I'd sue. A friend standing by with video recording would be a good thing to have if you do this.

Make it public on Youtube, offer interviews to the news media.

Looks like it might take a lawsuit to force them to follow state law. If one person doesn't want to do it, then OC as a group.

Georgia law was recently changed with HB 60 which makes it explicit that public property was taken off the table with regard to private entities that lease it, as to their ability to exclude or eject someone carrying a lawful weapon.

Yet, we still have pockets of resistance that are falling one by one. North Georgia State Fair forbids weapons, and it is held at a county park. I predict they will come around soon to follow state law. I will visit there soon with my family, and I will be OC'ing as is my usual custom.

I recently had email correspondence with Zoo Atlanta who has now decided to follow state law. They lease city owned land.

These things can get done, it just takes a little work.

 

[NMOCr]

Latest email followup state fair, and NM Governors office.

I have been working on this for several months now in emails. Its now quite clear to me that the only way to change this is with a lawsuit. They are claiming that the entire fairgrounds is a liquor establishment, nevermind the fact that only certain area's are physically fenced off for that purpose, and you can not take the booze outside those area's and into the rest of the fair grounds.

They quoted 4.3.1.19 which is clearly a violation of the NM state constitution "A. No person shall enter the New Mexico state fairgrounds bearing or otherwise possessing any deadly weapon, whether concealed or not. Any person found to be in violation of this regulation shall be immediately removed from the premises by a duly licensed law enforcement officer.
" http://www.nmcpr.state.nm.us/nmac/parts/title04/04.003.0001.htm

They then continue with the false premise that the entire grounds is a liquor establishment, when in fact only certain sections are, and are closely guarded by security and police so that basically isolates those sections from the rest of the general public. There is no lawful reason for this to even pass intermediate scrutiny.

Here is the email I just got: Sept 9, 2014

Mr. ***********, I am writing in response to the email you sent to the governor’s office concerning carrying a weapon on state fairgrounds. I inquired with our legal counsel and received the following information. I hope it is useful.



Whether the State Fairgrounds is private or public property does not determine whether or not the Agency has the authority to ban the carrying of firearms onto the premises. New Mexico law has outlined a variety of scenarios in which citizens’ ability to carry firearms is abridged for the safety of all concerned. Some examples of this are bars, restaurants with alcohol, liquor stores, schools, federal buildings, and state monuments. The State Fairgrounds is also an area of exception, as outlined below.



I. First of all, the fact that the State Fair has a liquor license that covers the entire premises prohibits anyone (other than the owner, tenant or operator of the establishment or on-duty law enforcement officers) from openly carrying firearms onto the premises. NMSA 30-7-3(B) states that whoever openly carries a firearm into an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony. This applies to all firearms, whether loaded or unloaded. There are, of course, exceptions to this general rule, outlined in NMSA 30-7-3(A). One of the exceptions is for a person who has a “concealed handgun carry” license. However, NMSA 30-7-3(A)(4)(b) clearly states that if such an establishment “has a sign posted, in a conspicuous location at each public entrance, prohibiting the carrying of firearms, or the person is verbally instructed by the owner or manager that the carrying of a firearm is not permitted in the restaurant,” then that person may not carry a concealed firearm onto the premises either.



II. Secondly, NMAC 4.3.1.19 prohibits the possession of any deadly weapons (including firearms) by any person entering the New Mexico State Fairgrounds. There is an exception at NMAC 4.3.1.19(B) for law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties. Furthermore, the commission or general manager may provide other exceptions as deemed necessary. See NMAC 4.3.1.19(C). Again, this regulation applies to firearms, whether loaded or unloaded, and whether they are concealed or carried openly. Those individuals with a valid concealed carry permit are not allowed to carry their firearm onto the State Fairgrounds either. NMSA 29-19-8 provides that “nothing in the Concealed Handgun Carry Act shall be construed as allowing a licensee in possession of a valid concealed handgun license to carry a concealed handgun into or on premises where to do so would be in violation of state or federal law.” State law is clear, under the New Mexico Administrative Code, Title 4, Chapter 3, Part 1: “No person shall enter the state fairgrounds bearing a firearm.”



Sincerely,






Erin Kinnard Thompson

Communications Director

Cell:505.261.5396

Erin.Thompson@state.nm.us

Any progress on this? Anyone try to OC there since? It is public land owned by a state agency, so how can they prevent you from carrying there? I'd CC to get in, and then take my extra shirt off in the restroom and OC. If they arrest me, then I'd sue. A friend standing by with video recording would be a good thing to have if you do this.

Make it public on Youtube, offer interviews to the news media.

Looks like it might take a lawsuit to force them to follow state law. If one person doesn't want to do it, then OC as a group.

Georgia law was recently changed with HB 60 which makes it explicit that public property was taken off the table with regard to private entities that lease it, as to their ability to exclude or eject someone carrying a lawful weapon.

Yet, we still have pockets of resistance that are falling one by one. North Georgia State Fair forbids weapons, and it is held at a county park. I predict they will come around soon to follow state law. I will visit there soon with my family, and I will be OC'ing as is my usual custom.

I recently had email correspondence with Zoo Atlanta who has now decided to follow state law. They lease city owned land.

These things can get done, it just takes a little work.

 

[AH.74]

They are claiming that the entire fairgrounds is a liquor establishment, nevermind the fact that only certain area's are physically fenced off for that purpose, and you can not take the booze outside those area's and into the rest of the fair grounds.

They quoted 4.3.1.19 which is clearly a violation of the NM state constitution "A. No person shall enter the New Mexico state fairgrounds bearing or otherwise possessing any deadly weapon, whether concealed or not. Any person found to be in violation of this regulation shall be immediately removed from the premises by a duly licensed law enforcement officer.
" http://www.nmcpr.state.nm.us/nmac/parts/title04/04.003.0001.htm

They then continue with the false premise that the entire grounds is a liquor establishment, when in fact only certain sections are, and are closely guarded by security and police so that basically isolates those sections from the rest of the general public. There is no lawful reason for this to even pass intermediate scrutiny.

I think the next step may be to try to obtain a copy of the liquor license and see how it addresses the specifics of the area- or if it does at all. If in fact it does cover the entire fairgrounds, that may be a legitimate claim on their part.

As far as the AC section- I would argue that this may not be unconstitutional based on the reasoning given- basically, as has been mentioned in other cases going all the way to the supreme court- there have to be reasonable restrictions allowed. And in this case, she has spelled out some of those. You must be able to argue that disallowing carry in schools and courts and the other locations is in fact unconstitutional as well.

I appreciate your efforts; but would you really argue that there can be absolutely no restrictions allowed, anywhere, in any case, whatsoever? Are all restrictions unreasonable?

 

[NMOCr]

I think the next step may be to try to obtain a copy of the liquor license and see how it addresses the specifics of the area- or if it does at all. If in fact it does cover the entire fairgrounds, that may be a legitimate claim on their part.

As far as the AC section- I would argue that this may not be unconstitutional based on the reasoning given- basically, as has been mentioned in other cases going all the way to the supreme court- there have to be reasonable restrictions allowed. And in this case, she has spelled out some of those. You must be able to argue that disallowing carry in schools and courts and the other locations is in fact unconstitutional as well.

I appreciate your efforts; but would you really argue that there can be absolutely no restrictions allowed, anywhere, in any case, whatsoever? Are all restrictions unreasonable?

I believe that they are using the false excuse that guns can be banned on the fair grounds, when it clearly doesn't support the state's interests which can only go so far as is basically necessary. That legal standard is intermediate scrutiny. Booze is severely controlled on the property. It's only allowed in specific, fenced off area's. Outside those area's, there is no reasonable reason to ban guns even under intermediate scrutiny. This outright ban is not reasonable and clearly violates the law.

 

[AH.74]

I believe that they are using the false excuse that guns can be banned on the fair grounds, when it clearly doesn't support the state's interests which can only go so far as is basically necessary. That legal standard is intermediate scrutiny. Booze is severely controlled on the property. It's only allowed in specific, fenced off area's. Outside those area's, there is no reasonable reason to ban guns even under intermediate scrutiny. This outright ban is not reasonable and clearly violates the law.

I will give you that your argument about intermediate scrutiny seems to have merit. It's an interesting and strong point.

 

[phil1979]

Serve them with open records requests to get copies of emails, meeting minutes, and any other documents that will bring to light any evidence heretofore not exposed regarding the weapons policy and exactly how they planned this. You might find some good material that could be helpful in a lawsuit.

 

[phil1979]

Does the Fair still ban firearms? Is so, has anyone challenged them by carrying openly and videoing the event?

 

[solus]

Does the Fair still ban firearms? Is so, has anyone challenged them by carrying openly and videoing the event?

Per nm state fair site, quote,

No person is allowed on Expo New Mexico Fairgrounds with a deadly weapon, concealed or not. Violators will be removed by law enforcement. NMAC 4.3.1.19. Unquote. https://statefair.exponm.com/p/about/faq

Now for the good news, i have searched for nm admin code 4.3.1.19...quote
4.3.1.19 DEADLY WEAPONS PROHIBITED:
A. No person shall enter the New Mexico state fairgrounds bearing or otherwise possessing any deadly weapon, whether concealed or not. Any person found to be in violation of this regulation shall be immediately removed from the premises by a duly licensed law enforcement officer.
B. This regulation shall not apply to peace officers in the performance of their official duties.
C. The commission or general manager may provide exceptions to this regulation, such as in the case of exhibitions of weapons for demonstration or sale or for ancillary use in livestock. For the purposes of this regulation, "deadly weapon" is defined as "any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded; or any weapon which is capable of producing death or great bodily harm, including but not restricted to any types of daggers, brass knuckles, switchblade knives, bowie knives, poniards, butcher knives, dirk knives and all such weapons with which dangerous cuts can be given, or with which dangerous thrusts can be inflicted, including swordcanes, and any kind of sharp pointed canes, also slingshots, slung shots, bludgeons; or any other weapons with which dangerous wounds can be inflicted".
[4.3.1.19 NMAC - Rp, Rule 82-1, 11/30/2004] unquote

Further from the same site...

HISTORY OF 4.3.1 NMAC:
Pre-NMAC History: The material in this part was derived from that previously filed with the state records center and archives:
SF 79-3 (Regulation 78-1) A Regulation Defining Technical and Professional Services, filed 4/16/79.
SF 79-4 (Regulation 78-1) A Regulation Defining Technical and Professional Services, filed 8/10/79.
SF 80-1 (Regulation 78-1) A Regulation Defining Technical and Professional Services, filed 5/28/80.
Rule 82-1 Deadly Weapons Prohibited, filed 9/27/82.
Rule 82-2 Alcoholic Beverage, filed 9/27/82.

4.3.1 NMAC

You’re attention is directed to ocdo cite https://forum.opencarry.org/index.p...t-beer-for-off-site-consumption-legal.137517/ which might lend insight it nm’s liquor board’s control.