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Surry County and Preemtion

gutshot II

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Jul 1, 2017
Messages
768
Location
Central Ky.
-snip-
As I said for years one was required to bring ammo and gun to the classroom.
-Snip-
I was an Dept. Of Criminal Justice Training certified instructor from 1996 thru 2012 and no ammo was ever brought into my classroom. My classes were held in my home. When a student arrived the gun and ammo were stored in the living room. The classroom was in the basement. I inspected the guns for safe condition, as required by the regulations, while the students watched the video tapes. Later when the students were required to disassemble and clean their weapons, they retrieved the weapons and brought them to the class room and the ammo remained in the living room. When the range qualifications started, we all went through the living room to my range in the side yard and shot the required rounds. At no time was any ammo brought into the class room.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
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here nc
Leo's were teaching the ccdw classes I sat in on. The NRA had nothing to do with them.

As I said for years one was required to bring ammo and gun to the classroom. At that time one had to demonstrate the ability to field strip and clean their firearm in class.
Later that was dropped but bringing the guns to class was still required so the instructor could inspect each firearm and answer any questions the gun owner might have about their handgun.
it is not nor was it my intent to suggest good olde boys in blue were or are qualified nor even capable of teaching the average citizens of their states appropriate basic firearm knowledge or skill sets necessary to safely allow the citizen to carry their personal firearm for their SD within the community they live in based on the learned LE military style training methodologies needed within the policing occupation.
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
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Kentucky
I was an Dept. Of Criminal Justice Training certified instructor from 1996 thru 2012 and no ammo was ever brought into my classroom. My classes were held in my home. When a student arrived the gun and ammo were stored in the living room. The classroom was in the basement. I inspected the guns for safe condition, as required by the regulations, while the students watched the video tapes. Later when the students were required to disassemble and clean their weapons, they retrieved the weapons and brought them to the class room and the ammo remained in the living room. When the range qualifications started, we all went through the living room to my range in the side yard and shot the required rounds. At no time was any ammo brought into the class room.
Goodie. Tidy little business wasnt it?
I sat in on 3 classes plus the one I endured myself.

None were done by the same person.
All had students bring unloaded gun, and ammo to class. When class was over the kiddies went and shot the giant target from 7 yards.

End of infringement, pays yo monies and permission slip in the mail.
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
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Location
Kentucky
it is not nor was it my intent to suggest good olde boys in blue were or are qualified nor even capable of teaching the average citizens of their states appropriate basic firearm knowledge or skill sets necessary to safely allow the citizen to carry their personal firearm for their SD within the community they live in based on the learned LE military style training methodologies needed within the policing occupation.
Here at least in the classes I sat in on , the students knew more about guns than the instructors. Getting the permission slip for most was so they could carry out of state.
Kys ccdw was never set up to teach squat except a little of the cc regs that had no teeth anyway.
Money scheme for the state and instructors plain and simple.
Little known fact , once you got that ky permission slip you were background checked monthly. Every month.

It's why my wife didnt renew hers and I likely wont mine when it comes due. Unless having to go out of state for wifes treatments.
 

gutshot II

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Messages
768
Location
Central Ky.
Here at least in the classes I sat in on , the students knew more about guns than the instructors. Getting the permission slip for most was so they could carry out of state.
Kys ccdw was never set up to teach squat except a little of the cc regs that had no teeth anyway.
Money scheme for the state and instructors plain and simple.
Little known fact , once you got that ky permission slip you were background checked monthly. Every month.

It's why my wife didnt renew hers and I likely wont mine when it comes due. Unless having to go out of state for wifes treatments.
Apparently you didn't pay much attention to what was being taught. The course was never intended to be an all around firearms class or a marksmanship class. It was intended to be something that everyone could pass without becoming an expert. There was some good information on the laws dealing with the use of force and the use of deadly force. Things that everyone that carrys a gun should know. If you didn't hear that information you either had a very poor instructor or you weren't listening. I will never give up my license. I go out of state every week, at least. The cost is negligible compared to the benefits. If the state is getting rich off of the 40 bucks that I pay every 5 years they are improving their ability to handle revenue.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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White Oak Plantation
Apparently you didn't pay much attention to what was being taught. The course was never intended to be an all around firearms class or a marksmanship class. It was intended to be something that everyone could pass without becoming an expert. There was some good information on the laws dealing with the use of force and the use of deadly force. Things that everyone that carrys a gun should know. If you didn't hear that information you either had a very poor instructor or you weren't listening. I will never give up my license. I go out of state every week, at least. The cost is negligible compared to the benefits. If the state is getting rich off of the 40 bucks that I pay every 5 years they are improving their ability to handle revenue.
Well stated.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
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here nc
noble sentiments regarding the state charging youse rich folk for the privilege of being able to carry a SD handgun...

NC, 50-60 bucks for the class, sometimes plus ammo & handgun rental & perhaps range fee!

the kind NC county's sheriff's departments charge NC citizens 85 bucks opps sorry just went up to 90$ now, plus '3rd party online application fee' to apply for the privilege to conceal their handgun while in in the Tarheel state!

now based on the social economic status of "some" NC citizens...those fees are out of reach...ya guys keep stating the state isn't getting rich...that truly isn't the rationale for the state's fees, now is it JIM?
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
Messages
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Location
Kentucky
Apparently you didn't pay much attention to what was being taught. The course was never intended to be an all around firearms class or a marksmanship class. It was intended to be something that everyone could pass without becoming an expert. There was some good information on the laws dealing with the use of force and the use of deadly force. Things that everyone that carrys a gun should know. If you didn't hear that information you either had a very poor instructor or you weren't listening. I will never give up my license. I go out of state every week, at least. The cost is negligible compared to the benefits. If the state is getting rich off of the 40 bucks that I pay every 5 years they are improving their ability to handle revenue.
Apparently you didnt pay attention to what I posted.

Not once did I say the class was intended to train anyone. I actually stated the opposite. It taught nothing. The videos were basic briefs on ky sd laws and carry regulations that were born with the stupid permit scheme.

It was all a sham to generate revenue and an opportunity for the legislature to create new regulations they could not before.

I've had a ccdw since they came out. The ONLY benefit there is or was to having one is if you travel out of state much. Which at the time I did.

I see you glossed over the monthly background check by KSP of all ccdw holders. KC3 let that one slip under the table?

I fully expect as one of the pappys that perpetrated and made a small business out of the ccdw scam you will go to your grave holding tightly to the permission slip.

Kentuckians cc in and out of state before the ccdw scheme . A couple of more years back in the 90s and we would have had what we finally tossed all the permit crap off and have now.
Permitless carry. Except we wouldn't have gotten the dumb regulations, few as they are, that birthed with the ccdw scheme.
 

gutshot II

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Jul 1, 2017
Messages
768
Location
Central Ky.
...snip... Tidy little business wasnt it? ...snip...
I never thought so. I just wanted to help get more armed law-abiding people on the street. Some people, in some circumstances, might think it was a lot of money. To me, it was a pittance and no reason to waste my time. In fact, it was an inconvenience. I had other things to do. Anybody that thinks it was a scheme to make a lot of money has a different idea of what a "tidy little business" is than I have.
 

American Patriot

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Mar 5, 2009
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, ,
hummm...

first and foremost AP, take a breath as you again notice the OP was grumbling about, oh here...
"The location of the Concealed Carry class is at the former Dendron Post Office. The Surry GIS website shows ownership of this building as being owned by the County of Surry under authority of the Board of Supervisors. The county has posted that guns and ammo are prohibited from this class."

the OP felt it was a violation of VA statutory guidance.

now since you already quoted my very first post to this thread...it addressed the crux of the OP's concern...there is no violation of VA statutory guidance but rather ...
no guns/ammo are allowed in training classrooms...did you see anything in my initial post where i mentioned a range or qualification or proficiency or anything activity outside the C L A S S R O O M in my post ~ nope!

ghost brought up the commentary about students are mandated to bring xyz TO the CLASS !

tell me sir(s) when was the last time you actively participated in firearm qual/proficiency life-fire activity in any
C L A S S R O O M?

unfortunately, the conversation morphed & degenerated on rationale/need/statutory mandates for citizens to accomplish qual/proficiency live fire, but the fact remains, as NRA pistol training is acceptable criteria in each of the states in this nation for citizens to obtain credibility to show the overseers the citizen can obtain their state's privilege card to carry abfirearm!

further, the source was provided ...NRA instructor's training plans explicitly mandates NO AMMO IN THE CLASSROOM during class settings...therefore my statement apparently is from the NRA's HQ training department!
there are never live ammo in training classes, cc or basic or instructor classes and most instructors do not want nor allow unknown civilian's personal firearms in their classes!
Training classes are held on firing ranges with guns and ammo.

Fodder, Smoke and Mirrors. You have less legs to stand on than a double amputee. :D
 

solus

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Training classes are held on firing ranges with guns and ammo.

Fodder, Smoke and Mirrors. You have less legs to stand on than a double amputee. :D
snipped the best part, substantiated evidence of my post #3...quote:

put the conspiracy theories away...gezzz louise..

there are never live ammo in training classes, cc or basic or instructor classes and most instructors do not want nor allow unknown civilian's personal firearms in their classes!

nra's basic/instructor course mantra
No live ammunition in the classroom

quote from page 6:

BASICS OF PISTOL shooting
PHASE II
LESSON PLANS & SHOOTING QUALIFICATIONS

No Live Ammunition in the Classroom
No live ammunition is permitted in the classroom. In a training environment where handling and dry firing is necessary, it is imperative that no ammunition or loaded firearms be present. If ammunition is not in the room, it cannot possibly get into a firearm! This protects instructors from potential liability and protects the students as well. Only dummy ammunition that is visually distinct from live ammunition is allowed in the classroom. Live ammunition may only be present on the range during live-fire exercises. unquote

btw AP....i noticed with interest you have not provided one iota, nada, not one bit of objective evidence, not hearsay, gossip, or anything showing any evidence contravening the world's leading firearm training organization to this nation's citizens and LE isn't viable...

cheers...
 

American Patriot

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"there are never live ammo in training classes, cc or basic or instructor classes and most instructors do not want nor allow unknown civilian's personal firearms in their classes!"
BASICS OF PISTOL shooting
PHASE II
LESSON PLANS & SHOOTING QUALIFICATIONS

Live ammunition may only be present on the range during live-fire exercises.
Proficiency classes and testing are done on the range where guns and ammo are required. There is no mention of rooms or classrooms in your above quote. "Never" is an all encompassing word. The words never and most indicate a poll has been taken but you reference none. Perhaps you are now having second thought about using them.
 

solus

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Messages
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here nc
Proficiency classes and testing are done on the range where guns and ammo are required. There is no mention of rooms or classrooms in your above quote. "Never" is an all encompassing word. The words never and most indicate a poll has been taken but you reference none. Perhaps you are now having second thought about using them.
roflmao...

nuffff said, truly cannot quit laughing...

29 postings later and this is the best articulation is your interpretation of objective evidence...

R E A L L Y ! ! !

oh my, chest is aching from laughing so hard...

"...most indicates a poll was taken..." darn giggling hysterically ~ again...

second thoughts...no you've taken proved my point completely...
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
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Kentucky
I never thought so. I just wanted to help get more armed law-abiding people on the street. Some people, in some circumstances, might think it was a lot of money. To me, it was a pittance and no reason to waste my time. In fact, it was an inconvenience. I had other things to do. Anybody that thinks it was a scheme to make a lot of money has a different idea of what a "tidy little business" is than I have.
Let's see. 75 bucks a head, times say even 5 to a class is what. 375.00 bucks for basically doing nothing for oh six hours or less.

Pretty tidy sum for little work . Heck I'd like to make 375 bucks just piddling at home every couple of days.

It was a money scam pure and simple. Kentuckians could be openly armed since statehood and most carried concealed if they wanted too long before the ccdw scam was cooked up.

Odd how it was never mentioned in a ccdw class that the permit cost ones privacy due to KSP monthly background checks as well as the over 100.00 dollar fee per person.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
Our current political climate results in a CCW being a prudent investment...I'm not one for all or nothing propositions except where cops are concerned...cops routinely violate citizen rights by enforcing unconstitutional firearms laws...and they do so with a smile...
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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Location
here nc
Let's see. 75 bucks a head, times say even 5 to a class is what. 375.00 bucks for basically doing nothing for oh six hours or less.

Pretty tidy sum for little work . Heck I'd like to make 375 bucks just piddling at home every couple of days.

It was a money scam pure and simple. Kentuckians could be openly armed since statehood and most carried concealed if they wanted too long before the ccdw scam was cooked up.

Odd how it was never mentioned in a ccdw class that the permit cost ones privacy due to KSP monthly background checks as well as the over 100.00 dollar fee per person.
from NC perspective, CHP course is by statute [12 NCAC 09f] 8 hours + range time [consisting of minimum 30 rounds at 3, 5, 7 yards ~ where 21 strikes hit the target] or @ 60$ per student equates to 7$ per hour for legally being responsible to allow unknown citizens, w/various backgrounds, the privilege of taking up loaded handguns, of varying serviceability, using their ammo, again of varying manufacture, and shooting them in your back yard! ghost

from a NM perspective, CCW is 14 hours + range time...humm so down goes the hourly rate...huh!

money scam...nawl ghost et al., olde jim crow laws in effect pure and simple!
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
Messages
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Kentucky
Ky was a money scam. We needed no permit to OC and OC could not be challenged here. Any charges based on OC were summarily dismissed to the extent there isnt even any case law concerning OC other than its never a reason to stop someone.

The total cost for a ccdw is about 147 bucks by the time you pay the instructor 75.00 bucks to do nothing. The state to invade your privacy and the Sherriff to print a photo id.

The legislature would in a couple of more years simply repealed the permit requirement making cc the same as OC but for a handful of eager beaver we must hide our guns NOW " gun owner representatives " agreeing to added regulations of cc carry that did not even apply to OC.

CCDW as it was persued was a huge set back for carry in ky .

Follow the money. Ky wasnt and isnt NC.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,248
Location
Kentucky
Our current political climate results in a CCW being a prudent investment...I'm not one for all or nothing propositions except where cops are concerned...cops routinely violate citizen rights by enforcing unconstitutional firearms laws...and they do so with a smile...
The 2a, except to Joe Biden is an all or nothing proposition. Anything else is trading freedom for a false sense of safety.
 
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