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The Hiroshima Myth

OneForAll

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See, some of you are saying that, but then the rest of your response doesn't make sense if that were true. If you said, "I don't believe the Japanese told the American diplomats they would surrender if they could retain the Emperor", then that would make sense. That the Japanese were brutal is absolutely irrelevant. Read what the US.gov did in Atlanta, in the war between the state, to the native americans, and the attempted genocide of the Filipinos. Irrelevant.

I knew you would be the one to respond first. You probably believe that 9/11 was a hoax too. All I simply did is state why I feel that the Japanese got what they deserved for their senseless war. To me it seems you are defending them....

And I will never agree with anything our government did to the Native Americans.
 
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OneForAll

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Another thing, how could anyone support the Emperor retaining power and having immunity from war crimes when it is his fault for all the non-sense? Even if he wanted to surrender in the end, that is like running from the cops and then stopping and saying, "Officer because I stopped for you, I do not want to be charged with fleeing."
 
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1245A Defender

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Well,,,

I knew you would be the one to respond first. You probably believe that 9/11 was a hoax too. All I simply did is state why I feel that the Japanese got what they deserved for their senseless war. To me it seems you are defending them....

And I will never agree with anything our government did to the Native Americans.

NO,,, the Japanese, here,,, didnt get what they deserved.
Nor,,, did the Japanese there,,, get what they deserve.

this was a war between governments,, not peoples!!!

the nuc bombs were not "nessessary"!!!
by that time we could have "safely" bombed the "industrial complex", day after day until they gave up..
we didnt need to indisciminatly nuc bomb the population centers of innocent Japanese people!
 

77zach

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Another thing, how could anyone support the Emperor retaining power and having immunity from war crimes when it is his fault for all the non-sense?

You mean anyone..... like Harry Truman? who gave the order to drop the bombs? Not only did he let him retain power, but gave Japan everything it wanted and more. Even free military defense courtesy of U.S. taxpayers (still the case today). But you already knew that because you read the article.
 
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OneForAll

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You mean anyone..... like Harry Truman? who gave the order to drop the bombs? Not only did he let him retain power, but gave Japan everything it wanted and more. Even free military defense courtesy of U.S. taxpayers (still the case today). But you already knew that because you read the article.

Actually, part of the surrender they signed stated they were not allowed to have a offensive military, but you already knew that from your article.
 

OC for ME

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I disagree. The article wasn't meant to be controversial. Japan was toast. Everyone knew it (who was in the know) before the bombs were dropped. Just as those in the know knew Hitler was toast once the decision was made to attack Russia.

The reason I disagree is that if people learn to slaughter the sacred propaganda cows of the past, they may take a more critical eye to the present. If people understood that their beloved government was a lying murderer then, maybe they would have not gone along with the murder of a million Iraqis after "nineleaven". When Bush made his mushroom cloud speech in 2002, maybe there would have been too few neocons to embrace the lie. The regime still needs a good deal of support in the "homeland" to commit its crimes.

Next up is Persia or maybe even Russia or China, and our freedom and standard of living will NOT survive that war. Maybe, just maybe, if enough people know about the lies of the civil war, phillipino genocide, WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Iraq 1&2, we can prevent the involvement in the next one.
The article is not controversial in my view. I think it conflates different issues, as you do. I also think that you give too little credit to the American people. The war(s) were bad when Bush was president according to the media. The war is not so bad now with a different president because the media has not said it is as bad. Dropping the bombs were a economical way to accomplish the same goal in Japan as the Dresden raid did in Germany, nothing more and nothing less, regardless of the stated or inferred justification. The next war will likely not involve many soldiers, but many computer geeks.
 

eye95

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Actually, part of the surrender they signed stated they were not allowed to have a offensive military, but you already knew that from your article.

Nice irony, throwing his juvenile argument back at him. Well done.


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<o>
 

sudden valley gunner

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Immoral unconditional surrender was called for, then conditions they asked for were granted.........so why bomb?

There are other articles than just this one to read. Including newspapers at the time, Americans didn't want to go to war the presidents did, why did they ignore the will of the people?
 

77zach

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Immoral unconditional surrender was called for, then conditions they asked for were granted.........so why bomb?

There are other articles than just this one to read. Including newspapers at the time, Americans didn't want to go to war the presidents did, why did they ignore the will of the people?

Despicable with your juvenile, specious arguments. The author of the article made this up, he's the first one to come with these wild tales. USA! USA! USA! USA!
 

sudden valley gunner

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Despicable with your juvenile, specious arguments. The author of the article made this up, he's the first one to come with these wild tales. USA! USA! USA! USA!

Like I said it isn't just that article. Eye even said it was because they wouldn't agree to unconditional surrender.

Jingoism and nationalism doesn't make right.
 

EMNofSeattle

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NO,,, the Japanese, here,,, didnt get what they deserved.
Nor,,, did the Japanese there,,, get what they deserve.

this was a war between governments,, not peoples!!!

the nuc bombs were not "nessessary"!!!
by that time we could have "safely" bombed the "industrial complex", day after day until they gave up..
we didnt need to indisciminatly nuc bomb the population centers of innocent Japanese people!

The distinction between people and governments is moot, a government is the extension of the wishes of the majority of the people. If the majority is unwilling to change their government or force them to conform to their wishes then they are responsible for what their government does. The Japanese had little problem killing innocent civilians of various other countries. Those "people" looked the other way as their government committed atrocities that outweigh the atomic bomb by a factor of 10.

Even to this day the Japanese government denies the rape of Nanking and the enslavement of Korean women as prostitutes and the Bataan Death March happened when we have clear historical evidence it did.

Plus the Soviet Union was planning a massive amphibious invasion of Japan after Germany surrendered. Imagine if Japan had to surrender to the Soviets, instead we forced their surrender with atom bombs and they quickly folded. Japan would not have benefitted from soviet occupation, name one country that's better for having been occupied by the USSR
 

marshaul

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The distinction between people and governments is moot, a government is the extension of the wishes of the majority of the people.

Right. No government has ever imposed its will on the majority, or rendered their consent irrelevant.

:rolleyes:

Leave it to statists to turn the notion of "government by consent" against its original aims.

Leave it to the statists to decry theory as unrelated to practice at every turn when it benefits them, but then to instantly twist and distort a theory, with no regard for practice, when that suits them.


Even to this day the Japanese government denies the rape of Nanking and the enslavement of Korean women as prostitutes and the Bataan Death March happened when we have clear historical evidence it did.

:rolleyes:

Plus the Soviet Union was planning a massive amphibious invasion of Japan after Germany surrendered. Imagine if Japan had to surrender to the Soviets, instead we forced their surrender with atom bombs and they quickly folded. Japan would not have benefitted from soviet occupation, name one country that's better for having been occupied by the USSR

"Listen, so you're about to be attacked. What we should so is leave you to your own devices, because that doesn't concern us. Instead, we really want to save you from the evil Soviets. We've decided that the best way to do that is to nuke you."
 
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OC for ME

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The following documents represent the position of the Government of Japan concerning a number of historical issues in a question and answer format. This document aims at promoting understanding on the position and policies of the Government of Japan regarding frequently asked questions on historical issues.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/q_a/faq16.html#q8
Japan has acknowledged, sort of. Also, Russian controls some of the northern islands of Japanese island chain, the Kuril Islands. This territorial dispute technically means that Japan and Russia are still at war, WWII, that is.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Right. No government has ever imposed its will on the majority, or rendered their consent irrelevant.

:rolleyes:

Leave it to statists to turn the notion of "government by consent" against its original aims.

Leave it to the statists to decry theory as unrelated to practice at every turn when it benefits them, but then to instantly twist and distort a theory, with no regard for practice, when that suits them.




:rolleyes:



"Listen, so you're about to be attacked. What we should so is leave you to your own devices, because that doesn't concern us. Instead, we really want to save you from the evil Soviets. We've decided that the best way to do that is to nuke you."

No government can function effectively without the approval, or at the very least, the indifference of the majority. Of course like most libertarians your idea of majority rule is the philosophy of an extreme fringe imposing suffering on everyone else but I digress....

The Japanese citizenry had high public approval of the emperor, they were fashioning pikes and wooden spears to repel us invasion because they didn't have enough firearms and ammunition.

You can't pick a fight and then complain when you lose. The Japanese attacked us first, and their rationale even shows their stupidity, they were suffering from resource shortages, we embargoed them because of their ongoing atrocities in China and the French colonies. Instead of negotiate peace with china, they invaded us, thus following up one stupid decision with another.
 

EMNofSeattle

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My God. Pure evil

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