The tone of conversations on this forum

[Tawnos]

Personally I would like to see "Address The Issue, Not The Person Concept" come to the forefront with out the digs.

You would have to abide by that as well. And since I am addressing the issue of you not addressing the issue, here are quotes, from you, with the attack described:

Careful squeak mommy will take your computer away, and I not surprised you only have one opinion, simpleton.

Blatant attack.

Oh you mean in responding to your comments and now cry when responded to?
Stop acting like a school girl and just let it go.

Blatant name calling without addressing the point.

Do you really read before your write a response?:lol:

Implication of stupidity without addressing the point.

Paranoia runs rampant with some in this group, with little or no resistance. :banghead:

Implication of paranoia without citation or addressing the point.

When you mature a bit you will understand.

Attempted character assassination due to poster's age, rather than the content of their message, again, without citation or addressing the point they made.

Before responding open a window first, maybe the smoke will clear out first and give some clarity in your lives.

Implication that all who disagree with you must be smoking pot. Again, failing to address the point.


In general, I've gotten so frustrated with you being incapable of actually staying on topic and addressing the cited and analyzed points people make that I have degenerated to your level at times, much to my own frustration. If you want any of us to take you seriously, perhaps you should read about formal logic and stop trying to browbeat people into your way of thinking. Between the poisoning the well, circumstantial ad hominem, ad hominem tu quoque, appeal to tradition, appeal to ridicule, false dilemma, and just the general personal attacks, I see that many times you have attacked the person or ridiculed their ideas without actually addressing the ideas in any depth.

So, if you would like the issues addressed, rather than the meta-circumstances of the issue or the people making the case, please lead by example.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Dave, I'm not sure the ignore feature is in reality all that valuable...

Depending on how one views a person they would put on 'ignore' (a threat, an enemy, an annoyance, stupid, ignorant, etc.) ignoring them is seldom the best choice.

Think about, for example, the goals of open carry, or even ANY carry.

In Real Life™ we can't, and hopefully don't, ignore threats, enemies, annoyances, stupidity, or ignorance. We keep a close eye on enemies and threats, try to educate ignorance, overcome annoyances, and try to fix stupid. (I know, I know, you can't fix stupid, but we insist on trying anyway.)

Same here in the forums. If we don't handle the problems presented, as they are presented, and in the appropriate manner, we end up losing in the long run.

We should do our best to educate ignorance by providing facts and their proofs, figure out why some annoy us and either overcome that or help them to not annoy others, we definitely need to keep close watch on enemies and threats, and we will forever try to fix stupid, no matter how much a lost cause that might be.

By putting folks on ignore, it is like ignoring problems in Real Life™ - it doesn't fix the problem, it just lets it fester. Eventually it will need to be addressed, and it is usually easier to do it near the beginning, before it grows.

On the sites I run I provide the users the ignore feature, but I suggest they not use it, unless there is no other alternative.

Just had to say that. If ignore is the only or best response you have, then by all means use it, but it is at best only a last resort.

Take care,
Tom

I agree mostly.

Option 1) grow up and cope

Failing option one...

Option 2) ignore feature

Heavy handed moderation won't solve the problem either. It would just create pissy, angry mods... and anyone who gets banned can pop right back on using a proxy or Tor.

And all your 'real life' analogies don't match up imho, this is the internet it is not real life. You're not in a back alley with a bg behind every dumpter.

If someone is fundamentally incapable of ignoring posts (or threads, or posters or topics) that bother them -- if they are that immature -- then the ignore feature is wonderific. The big problem with that, is that the people who need it most (and complain the most) will not actually use the ignore feature because they actually love the drama (generally speaking).

 

[Dave_pro2a]

you would have to abide by that as well. And since i am addressing the issue of you not addressing the issue, here are quotes, from you, with the attack described:


Blatant attack.


Blatant name calling without addressing the point.


Implication of stupidity without addressing the point.


Implication of paranoia without citation or addressing the point.


Attempted character assassination due to poster's age, rather than the content of their message, again, without citation or addressing the point they made.


Implication that all who disagree with you must be smoking pot. Again, failing to address the point.


In general, i've gotten so frustrated with you being incapable of actually staying on topic and addressing the cited and analyzed points people make that i have degenerated to your level at times, much to my own frustration. If you want any of us to take you seriously, perhaps you should read about formal logic and stop trying to browbeat people into your way of thinking. Between the poisoning the well, circumstantial ad hominem, ad hominem tu quoque, appeal to tradition, appeal to ridicule, false dilemma, and just the general personal attacks, i see that many times you have attacked the person or ridiculed their ideas without actually addressing the ideas in any depth.

So, if you would like the issues addressed, rather than the meta-circumstances of the issue or the people making the case, please lead by example.

ftw !!

 

[BigDave]

You would have to abide by that as well. And since I am addressing the issue of you not addressing the issue, here are quotes, from you, with the attack described:
Blatant attack.
Blatant name calling without addressing the point.
mplication of stupidity without addressing the point.
Implication of paranoia without citation or addressing the point.
Attempted character assassination due to poster's age, rather than the content of their message, again, without citation or addressing the point they made.
Implication that all who disagree with you must be smoking pot. Again, failing to address the point.
In general, I've gotten so frustrated with you being incapable of actually staying on topic and addressing the cited and analyzed points people make that I have degenerated to your level at times, much to my own frustration. If you want any of us to take you seriously, perhaps you should read about formal logic and stop trying to browbeat people into your way of thinking. Between the poisoning the well, circumstantial ad hominem, ad hominem tu quoque, appeal to tradition, appeal to ridicule, false dilemma, and just the general personal attacks, I see that many times you have attacked the person or ridiculed their ideas without actually addressing the ideas in any depth.

So, if you would like the issues addressed, rather than the meta-circumstances of the issue or the people making the case, please lead by example.

COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal attack

Again you take things out of context to try and support your position, misleading to say the least.

 

[Tomas]

Then again, Dave_pro2a, the ignore feature DOES sometimes have a tremendous amount of attraction...

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

In general, I've gotten so frustrated with you being incapable of actually staying on topic and addressing the cited and analyzed points people make that I have degenerated to your level at times, much to my own frustration. If you want any of us to take you seriously, perhaps you should read about formal logic and stop trying to browbeat people into your way of thinking. Between the poisoning the well, circumstantial ad hominem, ad hominem tu quoque, appeal to tradition, appeal to ridicule, false dilemma, and just the general personal attacks, I see that many times you have attacked the person or ridiculed their ideas without actually addressing the ideas in any depth.

So, if you would like the issues addressed, rather than the meta-circumstances of the issue or the people making the case, please lead by example.

So, your point is that they attack people. And in the process of explaining your point you tell them that they are incapable of logical thinking, reasoning, and that you have to "degenerate" to their level, implying that they are beneath you intellectually.

Makes sense.

It appears that you have a hard time not getting personal. Your response above is abundant with general and specific personal attacks on a specific person while arguing that they generally and personally attack others. Let me guess, those are merely critiques?

So we all are jerks online from time to time. We all mistype, misread, and misunderstand one another from time to time. Other times people are blatantly being jerks, and? If someone wants to be rude to me on here, so be it. Of course I draw the line somewhere too, but apparently much further than your sensitivities can handle. yes, I just called you sensitive. Yes, that was the logical conclusion that I came to after I read(e) your above response.

 

[Squeak]

These are all good posts. One of the problems that I see at times is we sometimes don't have the nack of expressing our thoughts on paper. We may joke to someone and they may take us seriously. By the time you get to correcting your post, it is too late. Everyone gets ****** or is it ######? Anyhow, there is no body language, and that is a big part of getting your idea acrossed. C'mon! Tear me up!:banana:

 

[nofoa]

Compared to ar-15.com this is a kiddy pool of internet forumz. Not to mention 4chan or Genmay.

For all my carrying information i come here.

 

[acmariner99]

And there has been recent name calling on this here thread. People we are the ambassadors of open carry, people read this. Our enemies already think we are irrational and irresponsible. Lets not feed them. You guys know who you are. There are going to be different opinions which is all well and good, but singling out people, calling names, and quite frankly acting like children is not going to advance our cause. Lets Carry On in Common Cause!

 

[Jeff Hayes]

And we have asses like you that just will not let it go as you spend a great deal of time instigating such interactions.
Again you take things out of context to try and support your position, misleading to say the least.

Dave You have very good insite, and are a very good thinker. I dont agree with you sometimes and that is OK I dont have to agree with you. This reply is the last straw for me your name calling ruins anything you could possably contribute to this forum. What a waste.

 

[Tawnos]

So, your point is that they attack people. And in the process of explaining your point you tell them that they are incapable of logical thinking, reasoning, and that you have to "degenerate" to their level, implying that they are beneath you intellectually.

Makes sense.

Actually, I meant that I at times have responded to him by the same name calling that he was using. Hence, degenerating from logic and reason into ad hominem and poisoning the well.

It appears that you have a hard time not getting personal. Your response above is abundant with general and specific personal attacks on a specific person while arguing that they generally and personally attack others. Let me guess, those are merely critiques?

Please show me how it's full of specific personal attacks. That was meant to entirely address the subject of this discussion: uncivil discourse and the means by which it is employed. Specifically, BigDave claimed he wanted to see "address the issue, not the person" as the primary modus operandi here. I pointed out that he has not followed that, cited sources, analyzed those sources, and asked him to lead by example rather than resorting to logical fallacies and browbeating.

How did he respond to that? Well, he attacked me ("asses like you") and tried to browbeat without actually showing any evidence of how what I quoted was either out of context or misleading. Thus, he attacked me as a person, but did not address the issue, the very criticism he was so recently leveraging.

It's quite easy to verify the context and content of the quotes. VBulletin has nice search features, all one needs to do is click his username and then click "view forum posts" and they can go back and read. He chose not to do so, despite what I thought was a good faith effort to say "okay, you want to stop the ad hominem, let's do so."

 

[BigDave]

Dave You have very good insite, and are a very good thinker. I dont agree with you sometimes and that is OK I dont have to agree with you. This reply is the last straw for me your name calling ruins anything you could possably contribute to this forum. What a waste.

Yet orphan you do not look what arrived at this provocation but go ahead and look the other way when it is not the popular thing to stand up for what is right.

 

[BigDave]

Twanos you pick and pluck items out of context with no surrounding information leading up to the statement and then try to justify your acts and statements, give us all a break and stop your attacks upon others.

 

[gogodawgs]

I, for one, especially like this forum because it is one of the few forums where people CAN speak their minds, or their lack of minds :lol:. I like this forum especially because it seems as if the First amendment is as well honored as the Second amendment is.

I agree NavyLt and I will add one as well that is very different from the rest of the interweb thingy....on this forum we all do a very good job of quoting and sourcing to authority.

Dave You have very good insite, and are a very good thinker. I dont agree with you sometimes and that is OK I dont have to agree with you. This reply is the last straw for me your name calling ruins anything you could possably contribute to this forum. What a waste.

Well said Orphan, I agree.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Should we pass the peace pipe around now? Or is that still illegal?

In reality there really only seems to be one poster, who is consistent with the ad hominem attacks and refusal to debate rationally or reasonably.

Most other posts I try to read with a grain of salt, and realize that people are often just passionate about their beliefs.

I am going to admit in trying to be succinct and to the point sometimes I might come across as being more brash than I am. I apologize in advance if I inadvertantly offend anyone. :lol:

As far as moderation goes, people do get removed if they consistently act like jerks, remember BooBoo? He was an actual open carrier but just couldn't keep the name calling and insinuations to himself. He never attacked me personally but really had a bug up his but about certain folks. I feel although we shouldn't quickly bother the mod's certain folks should be reported if they are continuing that type of unruly behavior and distracting from what our main focus here is.

I don't use the ignore function often I feel if I put someone who simply disagree's with me on ignore, that it leave's many of his points I disagree with uncontested, and also feel that I learn from differing viewpoints. But after nasty letters and consistant ad hominem attacks, it simply was useless for me to even respond to anything a certain poster says, I was letting my self get dragged down to his level. So even before the ignore feature was installed I would consistently ignore this poster.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Twanos you pick and pluck items out of context with no surrounding information leading up to the statement and then try to justify your acts and statements, give us all a break and stop your attacks upon others.

ROFLMAO I think this is entering stereotypical troll area. The old "I'm innocent" routine.

 

[Deleted_User]

Can't We all just get along?

That about covers it.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Y

:lol::banana: Great minds think alike, SVG!

Having met you and from reading your great posts I am going to take that as a compliment.

 

[Tawnos]

Well, rather than let him get to me, I've put BigDave on ignore. You can do the same just by clicking here to ignore BigDave (it will confirm so you know this isn't some bad link). I tried to be reasonable, really, it's in my nature, but alas... good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[Tawnos]

You know, just before I just got the BSOD on my computer, I was just going to post:

I wonder if BooBoo is back, and this time he is making an attempt at a more "manly" avatar!

:lol::banana: Great minds think alike, SVG!

BSOD? What OS? Do you have mini dumps turned on?