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Utah lowering legal DUI limit to 0.05%

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utbagpiper

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As you may have seen in national media, the Utah legislature recently passed and our governor signed HB 155 that lowers the legal blood alcohol concentration (BAC) limit for driving to 0.05%. This in comparison to the current law in Utah and all other US States of 0.08% BAC.

This change goes into effect on Dec 30, 2018, so over a full year away.

It is entirely possible that the law will be altered in some way before it takes effect.

However, in addition to affecting driving after consuming alcohol the new law also effects RKBA.

Under URS 76-10-528, a person may not legally "carry" a dangerous weapon (which certainly includes a firearm) if his BAC is high enough to cause a DUI if he were driving.

Utah does not prohibit possession of a firearm in a restaurant or bar. Nor do we prohibit imbibing while carrying a gun. But as noted above, it is illegal to carry a dangerous weapon while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, with the legal limit for alcohol being the same as for DUI. If nothing changes before Dec 30, 2018, that legal limit will drop from the current 0.08% to 0.05%.

According to the NTSB, this is good news for road safety in Utah. But it also creates an increased need for lawful gun carriers to be extra diligent of how much they drink while armed.

Charles
 

countryclubjoe

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As you may have seen in national media, the Utah legislature recently passed and our governor signed HB 155 that lowers the legal blood alcohol concentration (BAC) limit for driving to 0.05%. This in comparison to the current law in Utah and all other US States of 0.08% BAC.

This change goes into effect on Dec 30, 2018, so over a full year away.

It is entirely possible that the law will be altered in some way before it takes effect.

However, in addition to affecting driving after consuming alcohol the new law also effects RKBA.

Under URS 76-10-528, a person may not legally "carry" a dangerous weapon (which certainly includes a firearm) if his BAC is high enough to cause a DUI if he were driving.

Utah does not prohibit possession of a firearm in a restaurant or bar. Nor do we prohibit imbibing while carrying a gun. But as noted above, it is illegal to carry a dangerous weapon while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, with the legal limit for alcohol being the same as for DUI. If nothing changes before Dec 30, 2018, that legal limit will drop from the current 0.08% to 0.05%.

According to the NTSB, this is good news for road safety in Utah. But it also creates an increased need for lawful gun carriers to be extra diligent of how much they drink while armed.

Charles

What is the law concerning extracting blood from folks alleged to be driving while under the influence in your State?
Thank you in advance for your reply.
Regards
CCJ
 

OC for ME

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Is the a exception for lawful self defense? Does the law(s) apply while in your own home?

MO has a different, and logical/realistic, approach to guns and adult beverages.

[FONT=&quot]RSMo 517.030.1 [/FONT][FONT=&quot] A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons, except as otherwise provided by sections [/FONT]571.101[FONT=&quot] to [/FONT]571.121[FONT=&quot], if he or she knowingly:

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense; or[/FONT]
I see this a means to harm our right to keep and bear arms.
 

countryclubjoe

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41-6a-520. Implied consent to chemical tests for alcohol or drug -- Number of tests -- Refusal -- Warning, report.
(1)(a). A person operating a motor vehicle in this state is considered to have given the person's consent to a chemical test or tests of the person's breath, blood, urine, or oral fluids for the purpose of determining whether the person was operating or in actual physical control of a motor vehicle while:

(i) having a blood or breath alcohol content statutorily prohibited under Section 41-6a-502, 41-6a-530, 53-3-231, or 53-3-232;
(ii) under the influence of alcohol, any drug, or combination of alcohol and any drug under Section 41-6a-502; or
(iii) having any measurable controlled substance or metabolite of a controlled substance in the person's body in violation of Section 41-6a-517.
Thank you for the statute.

(1)(a).. Seems to imply that a person waived his/her 5th A right, simply by operating a motor vehicle in the state...

Again when a citizen pays for his/her drivers license, said citizen unbeknown to said citizen enters into a "bogus" contract with the State.. For a mere privilege to drive a vehicle, the state assumes and will argue in court that said citizens surrendered certain Constitutional rights..
Surrendering ones right to travel for a state issued privilege to drive puts citizen under the jurisdiction of the state and motor vehicles commission's de facto rules and regulations.. Ignorance and fear by the citizenry is the governments most powerful weapon in slowly removing rights from the people..

My .02
CCJ
 

Logan 5

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Ever see what happens to a person when they are hit by a car? 25 mph? 35 mph? 55 mph? Ever been there and actually felt it yourself? I have, twice. To say it hurts is a huge understatement.

Twice in my life I have been hit by cars, and both times they were drunk. First time I spent 9-1/2 months in the hospital.

So from my perspective I say if you don't like it, don't drink. If ya gotta drink, then don't drive. Because if you do and you hit someone, I pray to God they put you in prison for a very long time. AFAIC drinking and driving is akin to playing russian roulette wit only one bullet missing. The chance of someone getting hurt and or dying does not make the risk worth taking.

If you don't beleive me, go volunteer at a rehabilitation hospital. See, first hand, what DUIs leave behind.
 

solus

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alas logan 5, most are social drinkers who do not reach the clinical criteria required to mandate rehabilitation treatment. further, the cost of 30-day in-house appropriate treatment is expensive & prison time is not treatment per se, as most incarnation facilities lack appropriate treat interventions so, the individual just goes into an abstaining mode for a short period of time!

to the best of my knowledge, we have not discerned what causes our citizens to need the use of substances in our daily lives so our citizens can function in our society!

i do like your suggestion w/a minor modification...sentence those individuals convicted of drunk driving to the rehab facilities. let them them see and work w/those ppl who are there thru their misdeeds with substances.

i am glad you are of sturdy stock w/the tenacity to endure that long of care and rehab so we can exchange these thoughts.

ipse
 
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OC for ME

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Ever see what happens to a person when they are hit by a car? 25 mph? 35 mph? 55 mph? Ever been there and actually felt it yourself? I have, twice. To say it hurts is a huge understatement.

Twice in my life I have been hit by cars, and both times they were drunk. First time I spent 9-1/2 months in the hospital.

So from my perspective I say if you don't like it, don't drink. If ya gotta drink, then don't drive. Because if you do and you hit someone, I pray to God they put you in prison for a very long time. AFAIC drinking and driving is akin to playing Russian roulette wit only one bullet missing. The chance of someone getting hurt and or dying does not make the risk worth taking.

If you don't believe me, go volunteer at a rehabilitation hospital. See, first hand, what DUIs leave behind.
Your experience(s), while compelling, are not relevant to the question at hand. Please stay focused. Drunk driving is far away different than being somewhat imbibed while defending yourself.

The laws should be applied for what you have done, not what another might think you should not have done.

Some folks believe that prior restraints are a good thing for the safety of society. In this vein, how does The Sullivan Act survive post Heller and McDonald.
 

KBCraig

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What is the law concerning extracting blood from folks alleged to be driving while under the influence in your State?
Thank you in advance for your reply.
Regards
CCJ
Every state has some form of implied consent to testing while driving.

What's far more important here, since we're talking about the affect on gun rights, is if there is any implied consent to testing while carrying a gun.

Very few states, if any, have that provision -- I can't even think of any off the top of my head. Even in those states where carry is prohibited while "intoxicated", there isn't a mandate that one perform a field sobriety test or blow into a breathalyzer for non-driving matters.
 

OC for ME

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Every state has some form of implied consent to testing while driving.

What's far more important here, since we're talking about the affect on gun rights, is if there is any implied consent to testing while carrying a gun.

Very few states, if any, have that provision -- I can't even think of any off the top of my head. Even in those states where carry is prohibited while "intoxicated", there isn't a mandate that one perform a field sobriety test or blow into a breathalyzer for non-driving matters.
The test is not the point. The idea that a citizen would accept the premise...especially cops.
 

solus

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Every state has some form of implied consent to testing while driving.

What's far more important here, since we're talking about the affect on gun rights, is if there is any implied consent to testing while carrying a gun.

Very few states, if any, have that provision -- I can't even think of any off the top of my head. Even in those states where carry is prohibited while "intoxicated", there isn't a mandate that one perform a field sobriety test or blow into a breathalyzer for non-driving matters.
in the state of NC if you chance upon a LE vehicle sobriety checkpoint, and as mandated by law you inform the nice LE in the accomplishment of their duties you have your firearm, and blow any level, (no you do not have to be close to or over the established limit), your permit and firearm is taken.

if you fail to consent, you're license, permit, and firear(s) are removed from your person as you watch the nice tow truck take your vehicle while you sit in the back of the nice shiny LE vehicle.

now a point to remember, your permit's number is your DL number so as soon as the nice LE pulls the info from your vehicle plate they immediately know your have a chp!

only place i know where you can blow into the machine and lose your permit/gun and still be allowed to drive home.

ipse
 

bc.cruiser

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in the state of NC if you chance upon a LE vehicle sobriety checkpoint, and as mandated by law you inform the nice LE in the accomplishment of their duties you have your firearm, and blow any level, (no you do not have to be close to or over the established limit), your permit and firearm is taken.

if you fail to consent, you're license, permit, and firear(s) are removed from your person as you watch the nice tow truck take your vehicle while you sit in the back of the nice shiny LE vehicle.

now a point to remember, your permit's number is your DL number so as soon as the nice LE pulls the info from your vehicle plate they immediately know your have a chp!

only place i know where you can blow into the machine and lose your permit/gun and still be allowed to drive home.

ipse
Not so fast.
1. The sobriety checkpoint action you present would only apply to carrying with a CHP. There is no statutory threshold or limit when OCing. (I realize you may considered this covered, since you did enter the phrase "as mandated by law you inform", which only applies to carrying with a CHP)
2. If you have received, or renewed, a CHP within the last year your CHP is no longer the same number as your DL. Of course, the DL number is annotated on it.
3. According to the NC SHP, the fact of a CHP does not automatically come up.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Sobriety laws only apply to conceal carrying with a CHP in NC, same for duty to inform. NOW if using the CHP while OCing to carry in a otherwise restricted place I would suspect the sobriety law applies.

OTH CDL laws do apply whether driving a commercial vehicle, or not. If a person has a CDL it is just not worth to consume any alcohol, and drive.
 

solus

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Not so fast.
1. The sobriety checkpoint action you present would only apply to carrying with a CHP. There is no statutory threshold or limit when OCing. (I realize you may considered this covered, since you did enter the phrase "as mandated by law you inform", which only applies to carrying with a CHP)
2. If you have received, or renewed, a CHP within the last year your CHP is no longer the same number as your DL. Of course, the DL number is annotated on it.
3. According to the NC SHP, the fact of a CHP does not automatically come up.
hummm...
1. while not statutory, it is NC AG's guidelines: quote: Therefore, the permittee's accessibility to the weapon is of prime importance. It is unlawful to transport a weapon (absent a proper permit) that is BOTH concealed and readily accessible to a person. It is for these reasons, that when transporting a weapon in a vehicle, even greater care must be exercised to ensure that the weapon is not concealed and within the ready access to an occupant of the vehicle. North Carolina law does not specifically address how to transport a weapon in an automobile.

While a weapon carried openly in an automobile would not be concealed, there are other problems specific to this method of carrying a weapon. The principal drawback, of course, is in the event of an individual being stopped by a law enforcement official, the officer may not readily know that individual's purpose and intent for carrying a weapon. As such, it is imperative that an individual immediately notify an officer of the presence of any weapon in the automobile, for the officer's and the vehicle's occupants' safety.

It is important to emphasize that these prohibitions apply to passengers, as well as drivers of any vehicle. unquote

quote NC AG guidelines: "DO'S AND DON'TS" OF CARRYING A CONCEALED HANDGUN"
8. If you are in a vehicle and stopped by a law enforcement officer, you should put both hands on the steering wheel, announce you are in possession of a concealed handgun, and state where you have it concealed and that you are in possession of a permit. Do not remove your hands from the wheel until instructed to do so by the officer. unquote

Officer safety is paramount, they believe that, get cranky when they believe a citizen isn't as concerned for the officer's safety as the officer is. i personally do not care to get stopped at LE sobriety check w/o following the guidelines recommended by the NC AG.

2. doesn't matter since LE's ping their vehicle's computer and lookie...chp holder!

3. https://it.nc.gov/programs/cjleads/about-cjleads
CJLEADS integrates data found within the state’s various databases – including warrants, jail records, court records, prison records, probation and parole status, sex offender registration, DMV, Wildlife and Concealed Handgun Permits.

also see N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.17 (c). The State Bureau of Investigation shall make the list of permit holders and the information collected by the sheriff to process an application for a permit available to law enforcement officers and clerks of court on a statewide system.

please understand, i will error on the side of ignorance the nice LE's, do in fact, have instantaneous capabilities to discern if i have a CHP and will, w/o the slightest hesitation, proclaim & notify the nice LE in the accomplishment of their duties, i am an open or concealed carrier as my hands are maintained on the steering wheel during our on site discussion.

the judicial nightmare of getting a firearm back if confiscated is unbelievable and extremely time consuming so i try not to get the nice LE PO'd at me cuz i minimized their safety.

you are free to approach the situation as you want. bottom line, blow anything on the nice machine expect to lose your firearm!

ipse
 
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countryclubjoe

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I am in no way condoning drunk driving however I am protesting that one Suspected of drunk driving, must submit to a government sobriety test or any other inconvenience thereof without regard to suspected drunk drivers 5th amendment right..

When a citizen is issued a license, said license should not be construed as to mean that the citizen surrenders ANY RIGHTS for a mere government privileged license. No one should be forced to incriminate oneself, nor should anyone be penalized for exercising a right..

A suspected murderer should not possess any more rights under our constitution then our " alleged drunk driver"...

My .02
CCJ
 

solus

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Investigators are still trying to figure out why a man fled a traffic checkpoint in Roxboro Monday afternoon and ended up in a fiery crash that took his life and injured another driver. Roxboro police said they never expected their routine license check would turn into something that resulted in a loss of life.

Almost immediately upon impact, the 2006 Nissan SUV burst into flames with its driver trapped inside.
headline
stolen gun found in suv after chase ends in deadly crash, person county deputies say

http://wncn.com/2017/04/04/stolen-gun-found-in-suv-after-chase-ends-in-deadly-crash-person-county-deputies-say/

even the 'campus police' conduct these type of arbitrary checks even when citizens drive thru the mental health compound sitting on the main thoroughfare in my county!

all an exercise of power and control...

ipse
 
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countryclubjoe

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Investigators are still trying to figure out why a man fled a traffic checkpoint in Roxboro Monday afternoon and ended up in a fiery crash that took his life and injured another driver. Roxboro police said they never expected their routine license check would turn into something that resulted in a loss of life.

Almost immediately upon impact, the 2006 Nissan SUV burst into flames with its driver trapped inside.
headline
stolen gun found in suv after chase ends in deadly crash, person county deputies say

http://wncn.com/2017/04/04/stolen-gun-found-in-suv-after-chase-ends-in-deadly-crash-person-county-deputies-say/

even the 'campus police' conduct these type of arbitrary checks even when citizens drive thru the mental health compound sitting on the main thoroughfare in my county!

all an exercise of power and control...

ipse
Power and control indeed, along with a fishing expedition in search of other minor violations so as to ticket and generate revenue..

Lets be real, the average Joe citizens only encounter with law enforcement is via when citizen is out on the highway traveling about.. If said citizen is NOT in violation of any highway rules and if said citizens carriage is in proper traveling condition, said citizen should not be inconvenienced by local government simply because said citizen is a law abiding citizen and obtained his/her drivers privilege, does not infer that said law abiding citizen is obligated in any way to surrender certain inalienable rights. However that is not the case.. Rights are violated on the highways each and ever day.

Consider open carry where no license or permit is needed to exercise said action.. Now let's imagine that a concerned citizen reports to 911 that a man with a holstered gun was standing on the corner drinking a bottle of wine and using profane language... Now lets assume our wine drinking friend leaves the scene undetected by the police, two blocks away you are opening carrying and minding your own business, a few officers stop and detain you and demand ID and your permit, being a citizen that is aware of his/her rights, YOU REFUSE to comply with the nice LEOS request.. Now you are disarmed, handcuffed and put in the back of a patrol car, until the nice leo's can ascertain who you are.. Surely each and everyone of us would feel like our rights were violated and rightly so, because they were in fact violated... This violation occurs each and everyday to licensed law abiding citizens across our lands simply for traveling in their vehicles and minding their our business. Therefore " driving while innocent" can led to an unwanted encounter with the government...

" To constrain men to ANY inconvenience doth seem unreasonable".. John Locke

" The end of law is not to abolish or RESTRAIN, but to preserve and enlarge freedom'.. John Locke

When citizens enter into bogus quasi 'contracts" example, drivers, fishing, marriage and yes license to purchase or possess or carry a weapon, said citizen is in theory via the "license contract" giving the government jurisdiction over said citizen, citizen is relinquishing his/her right to privacy along with other rights not so easily seen on the surface.. And please don't be fooled, Any purchase of a government issued license or permit is in fact a
" contract"..

My .02
CCJ
 
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OC for ME

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hummm...
1. while not statutory, it is NC AG's guidelines: quote: Therefore, the permittee's accessibility to the weapon is of prime importance. It is unlawful to transport a weapon (absent a proper permit) that is BOTH concealed and readily accessible to a person. It is for these reasons, that when transporting a weapon in a vehicle, even greater care must be exercised to ensure that the weapon is not concealed and within the ready access to an occupant of the vehicle. North Carolina law does not specifically address how to transport a weapon in an automobile.

While a weapon carried openly in an automobile would not be concealed, there are other problems specific to this method of carrying a weapon. The principal drawback, of course, is in the event of an individual being stopped by a law enforcement official, the officer may not readily know that individual's purpose and intent for carrying a weapon. As such, it is imperative that an individual immediately notify an officer of the presence of any weapon in the automobile, for the officer's and the vehicle's occupants' safety.

It is important to emphasize that these prohibitions apply to passengers, as well as drivers of any vehicle. unquote

quote NC AG guidelines: "DO'S AND DON'TS" OF CARRYING A CONCEALED HANDGUN"
8. If you are in a vehicle and stopped by a law enforcement officer, you should put both hands on the steering wheel, announce you are in possession of a concealed handgun, and state where you have it concealed and that you are in possession of a permit. Do not remove your hands from the wheel until instructed to do so by the officer. unquote

Officer safety is paramount, they believe that, get cranky when they believe a citizen isn't as concerned for the officer's safety as the officer is. i personally do not care to get stopped at LE sobriety check w/o following the guidelines recommended by the NC AG.

...
Why does it matter to a cop or the AG why I choose to carry (OC)?Tyranny of the highest magnitude!!!

The officer has no business under the law to know why I choose to carry (OC)!!!

How do I know the intentions of that officer?

KYBMS!!!

Comply with his demands.

Record the encounter.
 

solus

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Why does it matter to a cop or the AG why I choose to carry (OC)?Tyranny of the highest magnitude!!!

The officer has no business under the law to know why I choose to carry (OC)!!!

How do I know the intentions of that officer?

KYBMS!!!

Comply with his demands.

Record the encounter.
might to argue your premise before the US SC, oh but wait...they already weighed in on the subject in Terry with their concept of officer safety nonsense!

thanks, but as i have stated numerous times...i'll stick with what is expected by the nice NC LEs ~ hands on the steering wheel, doc(s) in hand, voice recording going to hear me stating, " ...per NC statutes, I am notifying you I am armed!" "May i help you officer?" & " Oh am i free to leave officer?" last two stanzas of my mantra repeated until my vehicle is slipping back on to the highway & byways.

and statement i bolded is of grave personal concern to me...

ipse
 

bc.cruiser

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hummm...
1. while not statutory, it is NC AG's guidelines: quote: Therefore, the permittee's accessibility to the weapon is of prime importance. It is unlawful to transport a weapon (absent a proper permit) that is BOTH concealed and readily accessible to a person. It is for these reasons, that when transporting a weapon in a vehicle, even greater care must be exercised to ensure that the weapon is not concealed and within the ready access to an occupant of the vehicle. North Carolina law does not specifically address how to transport a weapon in an automobile.

While a weapon carried openly in an automobile would not be concealed, there are other problems specific to this method of carrying a weapon. The principal drawback, of course, is in the event of an individual being stopped by a law enforcement official, the officer may not readily know that individual's purpose and intent for carrying a weapon. As such, it is imperative that an individual immediately notify an officer of the presence of any weapon in the automobile, for the officer's and the vehicle's occupants' safety.

It is important to emphasize that these prohibitions apply to passengers, as well as drivers of any vehicle. unquote

quote NC AG guidelines: "DO'S AND DON'TS" OF CARRYING A CONCEALED HANDGUN"
8. If you are in a vehicle and stopped by a law enforcement officer, you should put both hands on the steering wheel, announce you are in possession of a concealed handgun, and state where you have it concealed and that you are in possession of a permit. Do not remove your hands from the wheel until instructed to do so by the officer. unquote

Officer safety is paramount, they believe that, get cranky when they believe a citizen isn't as concerned for the officer's safety as the officer is. i personally do not care to get stopped at LE sobriety check w/o following the guidelines recommended by the NC AG.

ipse
Ok, Solus, since you once again refer to former AG Roy Cooper's admonishments to we public serfs, let's go back to your original post and my reply to that specific item.

Here is your statement: " in the state of NC if you chance upon a LE vehicle sobriety checkpoint, and as mandated by law you inform the nice LE in the accomplishment of their duties you have your firearm, and blow any level, (no you do not have to be close to or over the established limit), your permit and firearm is taken".

I am gratified that you recognize my point there is no statutory BAC for OC. Your post does not make it clear to those outside of NC that the duty/requirement to inform lies only with the possession of the CHP, and the presence of alcohol in the blood (in any amount) also lies with the CHP and the accompanying CCd firearm.

I would appreciate any reports of such actual experiences on the part of an OCer (I haven't seen one yet in this forum).

As to whether they know why I am armed, I don't consider it any of their business unless I am violating some law. The mere fact that I have a gun does not qualify. YMMV. See US v Black, 4th Circuit, pages 12-13.
 

solus

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Ok, Solus, since you once again refer to former AG Roy Cooper's admonishments to we public serfs, let's go back to your original post and my reply to that specific item.

Here is your statement: " in the state of NC if you chance upon a LE vehicle sobriety checkpoint, and as mandated by law you inform the nice LE in the accomplishment of their duties you have your firearm, and blow any level, (no you do not have to be close to or over the established limit), your permit and firearm is taken".

I am gratified that you recognize my point there is no statutory BAC for OC. Your post does not make it clear to those outside of NC that the duty/requirement to inform lies only with the possession of the CHP, and the presence of alcohol in the blood (in any amount) also lies with the CHP and the accompanying CCd firearm.

I would appreciate any reports of such actual experiences on the part of an OCer (I haven't seen one yet in this forum).

As to whether they know why I am armed, I don't consider it any of their business unless I am violating some law. The mere fact that I have a gun does not qualify. YMMV. See US v Black, 4th Circuit, pages 12-13.
as mentioned yet another post not specifically addressed to you, Terry's provisions are alive and well within the NC LE bag of tricks provided by the DoJ training academy as well as handed down lore for nice LEs to follow to assure NC citizens remain under the power and control of the nice LE's whims.

as mentioned, i'll stick with what is expected by the nice NC LEs from citizens when involved in vehicle stops ~ hands on the steering wheel, doc(s) in hand, voice recording going to hear me stating, " ...per NC statutes, I am notifying you I am armed!" "May i help you officer?" & " Oh am i free to leave officer?" last two stanzas of my mantra repeated until my vehicle is slipping back on to the highway & byways.

that repeated once again, if you wish to play twenty questions w/the nice LEs during their interrogation routine that is of course your prerogative, please notice...the information being taken exception to, bolded in RED by another forum member is quoted from the NC AG's guidelines and not anything i stated nor advocated.

finally, i sure would hate to be stopped, not identify i am armed with my trusty OC'd pistol snug as a bug on my hip, concealed in my seatbelt & center console when, for whatever reason, the nice LE wishes you to get out of your vehicle as you attempt to backtrack opps, did i forget to mention i am armed etc. coupled with the fact you have been partying. i understand the nice LEs get quite cranky at this point...you enjoy the new party you just joined.

oh wait.. do you have a badge, active or retired, to get you out of such conversations?

i also noted you did not mention the nice LEs couldn't possibly know you have a CHP during the stop after they run your license plate through their puter ~ super glad that point also sunk in!

finally remember the majority of the nice LEs in this state do not believe the citizens should OC, and a very large majority of CHP instructors do not inform their clientele during training it is legal to OC!

ipse
 
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