WAC Show Puyallup 3/24 - 3/25

[BigDave]

My point was that WAC could not even allow it if they wanted to. So what the hell is the point in arguing about it. I'm a member and I think it's a good policy just because there is NO safe direction to point a gun in that setting.

Tom I will admit it has been 4 or 5 years since I was at a WAC show but they use to have sand filled barrels at the entrance to unload and clear weapons, if WAC wanted to they could easily provide safe clearing of weapons.

 

[SpyderTattoo]

That is provided. There is a bullet trap at the entrance.

And WAC is not violating anyone's Constitutonal rights any more than any other private property owner who disallows firearms is. If you choose to enter private property, you choose to follow the rules set by the property owner/manager. If you were to disallow anyone from carrying on your own property, are you violating their Constitutional rights?

 

[jt59]

As to never attending a WAC Gun Show, I cannot speak for others but I have in Puyallup 4 different times through the years I lived in Puget Sound and personally I did not find a good deal on items offered there, most were over priced to one item I remember looking at was a used XD that I could just drop by the Marksman and get the same thing brand new for the same price.

This....

 

[LkWd_Don]

The Puyallup fair is not state owned property! It's the largest privately owned fair in WA. Look it up before you spout off next time! WAC isn't even setting the rules here. The privately owned and operated fairgrounds are.

I know I already acknowledged this, but I was mistaken about it being State property. There should be no further need for me to capitulate in that regard.

I have however, done some research and see that there are those who have told me I am wrong, that are grossly mistaken.

Rather than make accusations, I will post a few links and allow folks to read for themselves. I challenge anyone to find in any of these documents, where the Management of the Puyallup Fair in any way restricts firearms from their facilities.

Fair Facility Rental Handbook dtd: January 2011
http://www.thefair.com/_assets/edit...AE6F57FDEA55_FacilityRentalHandbook_Jan11.pdf

Fair Fire and Safety Requirements handbook Revised December 2008
http://www.thefair.com/_assets/edit...4A7E9F8CF95862A5927768_SafetyRequirements.pdf

Washington State Fairs By-Laws
http://wastatefairs.com/index_files/bylaws.pdf

 

[dadada]

I am going to ask that you back up and back off the "Untruthful" statements! Since it appears that I must now revert to being an Educator, please follow along.

First off. The Puyallup Fairgrounds is State Owned Property! Being a Resident in the State of Washington, I own that just as much as you do.

Now, what are the laws in the State of Washington involving Carry of a Firearm? First I will start with our Washington State Constitution. http://www.leg.wa.gov/LawsAndAgencyRules/Pages/constitution.aspx Please pay attention to Article 1 Section 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.
Effect of your refusal to allow me to carry in your functions that are basically open to the public You impaired my Rights!
Now let's look at the limitations the State of Washington applies to my carry. Found at http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41 and specifically 9.41.050 States that I shall not carry concealed without a permit having been properly issued and even if I did not get that concealed pistol permit as long as I am not excluded from legally carrying a firearm it would only be a misdemeanor offense.
The area's specified by Washington State Law (RCW) that are listed as restricted from legal carry are contained in RCW 9.41.300 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300 and they are:
* jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness,
* areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings.
* restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment.
* That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age
* restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration,

Now, drop YOUR failure to be truthful and try your post again!

Might want to know what your talking about before you pop off. The fairs never been owned by the state. First hint, it's called the PUYALLUP fairgrounds. Puyallups a city. The fairs a private corp. owned by about 200 shareholders. http://www.thefair.com/utility/about-us/board_management.php

 

[LkWd_Don]

Might want to know what your talking about before you pop off. The fairs never been owned by the state. First hint, it's called the PUYALLUP fairgrounds. Puyallups a city. The fairs a private corp. owned by about 200 shareholders. http://www.thefair.com/utility/about-us/board_management.php

I understand how some will ignore the time stamp of the post and will post before checking to see if it has been covered all ready so for this last post of yours, I will forgive you.

Now, have you read my follow-up?

 

[dadada]

I understand how some will ignore the time stamp of the post and will post before checking to see if it has been covered all ready so for this last post of yours, I will forgive you.

Now, have you read my follow-up?

Why would I ask for your forgiveness? Stuff your pathetic attempt at sounding condesending.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

This....

Yeah. Overpriced guns...... Had one guy selling a USED M&P for more than what you could buy for brand new in a store......

Then I had a vendor flip out because I showed a buddy the removable backstrap on the M&P, after getting the vendors permission.....

Then another vendor gave me **** because I was standing in front of his table, trying to give an old neighbor my phone number, because he lost it (small world), so we could catch up later.....

Then there in the back corner were these two guys trying to tell me 'Open carry is legal'...what a bunch of weirdos those two were..... I dunno how it happened, but I ended up paying THEM to take some of their pamphlets and distribute them........They seemed pretty organized though..... :lol:

I ended up buying a USED set of furniture for my AK (needed rails), and an AK74 style brake for 5$ more than I could have ordered it online for..... So it's a loser, not even counting gas money.... The only really good deals that I see every time, is a guy in the back selling Gerbers and Leathermans for $20.... Unfortunately he was all out of the Leathermans, otherwise I woulda grabbed one or two... and THOSE are worth going to the show for to get that cheap...


I WAS going to renew my membership, but after being stopped, told I couldn't go another 50ft to renew my membership, even WITH an escort, and I'd have to trot back to my car, drop off BOTH my firearms, come in, renew my membership, then go BACK out to my car to retrieve them, I said F it.... If it's about trying to keep people who aren't members from selling, that's awesome, but when you have an expired badge, and you're looking at renewing, you'd think they'd cut you some slack...but they treated me as if I was some dick off the street trying to sell his guns without being a member (in reality, I just wanted to bring it in to make sure accessories fit)....

Hell, even cops will let you slide 9/10 times with expired tabs if you're legitimately going to pick them up...

 

[LkWd_Don]

Why would I ask for your forgiveness? Stuff your pathetic attempt at sounding condesending.

I never said you did or needed to, now I will temporarily forgive your ignorance.

 

[Jim675]

That is provided. There is a bullet trap at the entrance.

And WAC is not violating anyone's Constitutonal rights any more than any other private property owner who disallows firearms is. If you choose to enter private property, you choose to follow the rules set by the property owner/manager. If you were to disallow anyone from carrying on your own property, are you violating their Constitutional rights?

I do not believe they are violating my rights. I do believe they are freely choosing to behave in a manner counter to my personal beliefs, and the beliefs of many OCDO members in this thread.

How many of the folks staunchly supporting WAC have called management of other retail outlets to educate / convince them to allow OC? And if that effort failed, they quit dong business with them.

I do not care who does or doesn't shop at the WAC show, or COSTCO, or any other business.

But calling those of us who treat the WAC show consist with our beliefs hypocrites is simply wrong.

I will shop at Cabela's, even though they're often overpriced because they allow OC.
I will not shop at WalMart, even though they're cheap and allow OC, because they don't sell handguns and still want to make money off of accessories, and yet they treat gun/ammo purchasers as second class citizens.
I won't shop at the WAC show because they're overpriced AND they treat carriers as dangerous to the public.

I am not dangerous to the general public and so resent this policy.

 

[massivedesign]

I know I already acknowledged this, but I was mistaken about it being State property. There should be no further need for me to capitulate in that regard.

I have however, done some research and see that there are those who have told me I am wrong, that are grossly mistaken.

Rather than make accusations, I will post a few links and allow folks to read for themselves. I challenge anyone to find in any of these documents, where the Management of the Puyallup Fair in any way restricts firearms from their facilities.

Fair Facility Rental Handbook dtd: January 2011
http://www.thefair.com/_assets/edit...AE6F57FDEA55_FacilityRentalHandbook_Jan11.pdf

Fair Fire and Safety Requirements handbook Revised December 2008
http://www.thefair.com/_assets/edit...4A7E9F8CF95862A5927768_SafetyRequirements.pdf

Washington State Fairs By-Laws
http://wastatefairs.com/index_files/bylaws.pdf

Find and post the lease agreement... Even the Puyallup fair prohibits weapons.

 

[gogodawgs]

I do not believe they are violating my rights. I do believe they are freely choosing to behave in a manner counter to my personal beliefs, and the beliefs of many OCDO members in this thread. Well put Jim.

How many of the folks staunchly supporting WAC have called management of other retail outlets to educate / convince them to allow OC? And if that effort failed, they quit dong business with them. I am probably considered in this category. I reach out to gun owners at the show, because we need them in the long run, and their are plenty there that are filled with serial misinformation and many that are enlightened after talking with us.

I do not care who does or doesn't shop at the WAC show, or COSTCO, or any other business.

But calling those of us who treat the WAC show consist with our beliefs hypocrites is simply wrong. I won't call anyone a hypocrite, I will just say that some that make these statements are ignorant of the WAC show and how business is conducted.

I will shop at Cabela's, even though they're often overpriced because they allow OC.
I will not shop at WalMart, even though they're cheap and allow OC, because they don't sell handguns and still want to make money off of accessories, and yet they treat gun/ammo purchasers as second class citizens.
I won't shop at the WAC show because they're overpriced AND they treat carriers as dangerous to the public. To be fair, the WAC can't be overpriced because they don't sell anything. Are some tables overpriced, yes. Are there deals to be had, yes. I have bought two guns recently at the show that were both below what my dealer cost at my store is. Knowing how to shop a show can be a bit of an art form.

I am not dangerous to the general public and so resent this policy.

Good post Jim.

 

[fire suppressor]

You were the one who asked about the times of the show. I was answering your question. If you feel the way your above post states, why did you ask about the times of the show?

Because I wanted to make sure I understood the rules before I jump to a convulsion

 

[LkWd_Don]

Find and post the lease agreement... Even the Puyallup fair prohibits weapons.

Oh, so now you are going to tell me that I have to get a copy of your lease agreement?
I just posted all that TheFair.com has available for perspective clients and tenants.
If you are so sure of yourself, why don't you prove your position, scan and post a copy of this last lease.

Alternately, I might have to submit a legal request for release of information through JW the officially listed WAC Secretary. IAW RCW Title 24 Corporations and associations (nonprofit) http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?Cite=24 or through the Secretary of States office if need be.

 

[fire suppressor]

I do not know of ANY gun show that allows loaded carry in it. It's not about stripping your 2A rights, it's about safety.

Gun shows are loaded with accessories, holsters mags etc. People will pull out their loaded carry piece and muzzle sweep 1,000 people as they try and cram it into that new bedazzled holster. You think everybody who carries a gun has perfect trigger control, knows the rules of firearm safety... HA! Ask any gun store owner how many times a day a customer comes into his store and whips out his loaded carry piece? Now, multiply that by 1,000 tables and how many thousands of customers? NO THANKS!

I would never expect the gun sellers to keep their merchandise loaded but the gun on my hip is not for sale and is too remain in its holster unless I am forced as a last desperate effort to save my life. My loaded gun holstered on my hip offers absolutely zero threat or safety concerns to anyone just as it does not while I am walking down the street minding my own business. Now you want to bring in a gun to sell or possibly trade then yes of course empty it and safety check it

 

[fire suppressor]

It has been offered several times to various OCDO members, come to the show 1 time on our dollar and watch what happens. After walking around, standing off to the side and watching the way firearms are handled your perspective will change raapidly. The general membership of WAC are pro 2 A. The ones to worry about are the average Joe off the street, the "questionable" show goers wearing their do rags, gangsta looking clothing, and obvious lack of firearms knowledge.
Sure there are some great deals to be found, there are also prices that are higher than they should be.
The entire things boils down to

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY IT IS RUN, DON'T GO!

Trigger Dr, I was not aware of this and may take you up on this if my schedule ever allows. I have a lot of respect for you and if you stand up for the WAC then that is enough to make me give of a second look.

 

[fire suppressor]

That is provided. There is a bullet trap at the entrance.

And WAC is not violating anyone's Constitutonal rights any more than any other private property owner who disallows firearms is. If you choose to enter private property, you choose to follow the rules set by the property owner/manager. If you were to disallow anyone from carrying on your own property, are you violating their Constitutional rights?

You are 100% correct and I respect their authority to do so

 

[amzbrady]

I do not know of ANY gun show that allows loaded carry in it. It's not about stripping your 2A rights, it's about safety.

Gun shows are loaded with accessories, holsters mags etc. People will pull out their loaded carry piece and muzzle sweep 1,000 people as they try and cram it into that new bedazzled holster. You think everybody who carries a gun has perfect trigger control, knows the rules of firearm safety... HA! Ask any gun store owner how many times a day a customer comes into his store and whips out his loaded carry piece? Now, multiply that by 1,000 tables and how many thousands of customers? NO THANKS!

Why do they not check everyone for ammo before they go in, all you need is to have a pocket full of ammo or a mag preloaded and find a firearm on a table if you are going to cause trouble? Why not seperate the guns and ammo by rooms or buildings?

It has been offered several times to various OCDO members, come to the show 1 time on our dollar and watch what happens. After walking around, standing off to the side and watching the way firearms are handled your perspective will change raapidly. The general membership of WAC are pro 2 A. The ones to worry about are the average Joe off the street, the "questionable" show goers wearing their do rags, gangsta looking clothing, and obvious lack of firearms knowledge.
Sure there are some great deals to be found, there are also prices that are higher than they should be.
The entire things boils down to

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY IT IS RUN, DON'T GO!

Are you selective also to whom you hand out flyers to, too? Maybe this could be curbed by not allowing anyone in who does not have a CPL, and by making our CPL getting rules more strict, with mandated hours of gun safety training. We should make it so people have to get background checks before they can purchase a firearm at a gunshow, so that we could eliminate the "questionable" show goers wearing their do rags, gangsta looking clothing, and those who obviously lack of firearms knowledge. Easy solutions so those of us who are law abiding citizens would have more places we could carry.

I hard to believe that was said on this site by a member. I can't believe that some of the most active members on this site that fight for the right to open carry anywhere are ok with WAC. well since it for safety........what really!!!!!!! Oh no here comes the angry response or verbal lashing for me believing that NOBODY should take my rights away.

Everyone that fights for WAC on this site needs to unholster there weapon, unload it, and insert a zip tie. Now go through your day with this.
Hey it's not about stripping your 2A rights, IT'S ABOUT SAFETY!

I have talked to many people about this and at least 40 have band going to the WAC shows. I believe WAC should have a responsibility to uphold gun owners rights as gun owners are the customers.

Ask yourself this
Would you eat at a resturant that doesn't allow you to carry?
Would you shop at a store that is against your right to protect yourself?
Would you purchase a gun from a gun store that is affraid of people legaly carrying guns?

Sorry but I don't buy the smoke screen "It's about safety" and in fact it is about stripping your 2A rights. Astonishing how certain people fight for the right to carry and yet they surrender there rights to a group because its about safety.

Many things could be done for safety. But instead like most every other anti, they also involve the law abiding carriers.

First and foremost, thanks for your service. But are you really saying that you swore to destroy private property rules and peoples personal choices? On your property, YOU set the rules, WAC is no different. Personally, I don't want some random guy carrying on my property. WAC is no different.

You guys going off that WAC is anti- 2nd amendment is like saying a store with a no shirts=no business sign is anti 1st.

Now what would happen if every private property owner took this stance, Starbucks, Wally world, Cabelas, and on and on...

Tom, I disagree, WAC is setting the rules. And they are rules for safety. With over 900 tables and 5000-10000 attendees at the show with varying degrees of firearms knowledge, WAC has decided to take the route of no loaded firearms. I respect that decision after having attended multiple shows and watching the general public's handling of firearms. Remember, the purpose of a gun show is to handle firearms for sale and trade. This is dynamically different from any other business, park, etc where handling firearms is not part of attendance.

Do you oppose the "gun show loophole"? If so those people that WAC most fears in their buildings are the very ones that WAC wants one of their vendors to sell a firearm to and have them take it out in public amongst the rest of society. Could this be why The Brady campaign and Ceasefire are so scared? Your argument has got me thinking that maybe we do need stricter laws for gunshows. I fear common criminals in public and now wonder if so many are so sensless at a gun show, maybe they shouldnt be allowed to own a gun, and the gun show must be the only way they will have access to one. This debate has really opened my eyes, esp since I only purchase new. I went to WAC show in monroe and saw no sweeping, no mishandeling of firearms, but I walked through it pretty fast since I was looking for a reasonable ruger 10/22 and all of them I saw were only a few bucks below retail, and I had already wasted $6 to get in, The membeship cost made it so it was cheaper for me to go buy new elsewhere.

I do not believe they are violating my rights. I do believe they are freely choosing to behave in a manner counter to my personal beliefs, and the beliefs of many OCDO members in this thread.

How many of the folks staunchly supporting WAC have called management of other retail outlets to educate / convince them to allow OC? And if that effort failed, they quit dong business with them.

I do not care who does or doesn't shop at the WAC show, or COSTCO, or any other business.

But calling those of us who treat the WAC show consist with our beliefs hypocrites is simply wrong.

I will shop at Cabela's, even though they're often overpriced because they allow OC.
I will not shop at WalMart, even though they're cheap and allow OC, because they don't sell handguns and still want to make money off of accessories, and yet they treat gun/ammo purchasers as second class citizens.
I won't shop at the WAC show because they're overpriced AND they treat carriers as dangerous to the public.

I am not dangerous to the general public and so resent this policy.

Very well said Jim...

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Correct, Trigger, I personally have offered up my own money on several occasions, including an offer to fill one members gas tank as well for the trip. Yet no one has taken me up on this offer. I don't fault anyone one for not wanting to join, but I will fault them for taking shots at the organization and never having attended. I am willing to be open minded about WAC or any other group.

The money isn't the issue, and I have been to a WAC show....not my cup of tea. The principle is people getting derided or called ignorant for stating the fact they don't like that a 2A organization don't trust 2A people.

The hypocracy comes when you want everyone to respect your rights ( to carry ), but you arent willing to extend the same respect to the rights of private property holders.

Where's the hypocrisy, from me? I have always stated they are a private business they can run it as they want. And those who don't like their disarming of their customers have a choice not to go, they also get to bitch to about it just as they would any other business that doesn't allow them to be armed.

 

[massivedesign]

I would never expect the gun sellers to keep their merchandise loaded but the gun on my hip is not for sale and is too remain in its holster unless I am forced as a last desperate effort to save my life.

+100 Fire, but unfortunately, not all people are as gun smart are others. Glad you know it stays in, but can you personally promise that everybody else will abide? No, and that is the issue. A gun show to some people is like leggo blocks to a small kid. Hands on!