WAC Show Puyallup 3/24 - 3/25

[waterfowl woody]

of course a gun show is hands on. a gun shop is hands on too. If the handling of guns that are zip tied and for sale is scary then change how the show is set up, like all tables that sell firearms has a wall behind them and tables that sell other are in the middle. If someone pulls a gun out of there holster then why are they not band from the show or even had the police called?
Being private land means its the decision of WAC and in that case it makes it even more hard to swallow. What kind of example are they setting for others when they don't trust the people they sell to, or make it look that way to outsiders.
Oh and if this was any other store all you guys defending WAC would jump aboard and help try and change their way of thinking! well.......they are taking your rights......huh. seems that is how America works.

firearms are allowed on my property by anyone, its your actions that might lead you to taking a long dirt nap!

 

[massivedesign]

90% of the tables sell guns. Most of the tables sell holsters or add on accessories. So you are saying the WAC should invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in ballistic paneling just so people can carry loaded?

 

[Bill Starks]

I quit reading after page 3 but I will chime in here.
Hundreds if not a few thousand of us everyday go about our business with a holstered firearm and never touch it... and if you could positively say that each and every show you were NEVER going to touch it then yes, carry away....BUT we are talking about a Gun Show, a place where people bring guns to sell or trade. Some folks attend the show to do nothing more than look, some to buy or trade. What happens when you get that wild hair to trade off your current carry pistol cause the guy offered you a great deal? Where do you clear your carry weapon?

The gun show is the only place that I know of where if I see a gun with a zip tie thru the barrel and the guy wants to look at new sights or holster or other goodies for my weapon that I don't have to worry about having to clear it each and every time.

Some years ago WAC had a ND in the building, 2 years ago October I was walking down a aisle on a early Sat morning when a guy pulled a shotgun out of a bag which was pointed in my direction racked the slide and a round popped out of the chamber. Needles to say we had words !!

Bloominton Illinois (mini 14) - http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDgQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqbBzKpL4n44&ei=x0JzT43DLKe3iwKi0-27Cw&usg=AFQjCNH7IB5i0xjzEvjpASC3ouQ8pSADpw

Springfield MO - (pistol) ​

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...0-27Cw&usg=AFQjCNF1MMmn8CdClhUpiZqCb8mP450TCw

Knoxville,TN - (1911) - http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=350480

[h=1]michigan - http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...-michigan-accidental-discharge-firearm-2.html[/h]

Jackson, MS - ​

Jackson Miss - http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/92190-accidental-discharge-jackson-gun-show.html

 

[Jim675]

I appreciate your concerns. However, I think that what's missing is an understanding of probabilities.

Those rare exceptions to safe gun handling happen everywhere. We've all also read instances on OCDO of someone's handgun firing while that were in the bathroom of a store, in their own home, or as they exit a vehicle. M1Gunr recalls several incidents at gun shows, nationwide, over the last few years. How many safely attended gun shows over that same period?

How many similar incidents happened in retail stores that do not band OC'd weapons?

How many people, including supporters of this policy, have suggested someone "just CC" to WAC, nullifying this policy and espousing lack of respect for the property owner's rights?

How many man-hours of carried weapons between incidents on average at WAC? Do you think it is substantially lower competing venues, or grocery stores for that matter? Aren't the WAC attendees our fellow WA citizens who go about their lives all around us armed as well?

WA CC licenses continue to climb. More people carry, and more of them OC. That's all good. However, x% of those folks will have an ND at some point. Whether they are relatively concentrated at a WAC show or Cabela's, or more dispersed throughout a Safeway, they are the same people, same skill set, same weapons, etc...

If we believe "ordinary people" are dangerous we should not sell them weapons.

Most traffic accidents happen on busy roads. We should not let people drive on busy roads because they're dangerous.

 

[LkWd_Don]

Some years ago WAC had a ND in the building, 2 years ago October I was walking down a aisle on a early Sat morning when a guy pulled a shotgun out of a bag which was pointed in my direction racked the slide and a round popped out of the chamber. Needles to say we had words !!

As well you or someone involved with the show should have.

Bloominton Illinois (mini 14) - http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...0-27Cw&usg=AFQjCNH7IB5i0xjzEvjpASC3ouQ8pSADpwSpringfield MO - (pistol)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...0-27Cw&usg=AFQjCNF1MMmn8CdClhUpiZqCb8mP450TCw

Knoxville,TN - (1911) - http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=350480

michigan - http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...-michigan-accidental-discharge-firearm-2.html

Jackson, MS - http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/92190-accidental-discharge-jackson-gun-show.html

Only four examples in how many thousands of Gun-Shows across the United States each year that are attended by how many people over-all?

I know a certified Firearms Instructor, who still doesn't practice keeping his finger off the trigger till he is ready to shoot, do I get nervous every time I see him reach for any weapon.. You bet I do.. But he is only one in the tens of thousands I have had to deal with over the years. So by WAC's standards, I should simply restrict everyone's rights just because they may be like him.

Sorry, that doesn't wash and I am still waiting for an honest answer. I have seen the rationalizations change to fit needs and try to revert focus away from the original issues.
Being:
* Why did they not insure that everywhere they advertised, it was stated that only members could carry into the show? And I already made mention that I found out about the show through the NRA Website. Telling me that it is posted on the Clubs website is simply a rationalization!
* Why are they claiming that they were only following Fairgrounds rules when all the Rules I can find shown at TheFair.com do not mention a thing about guns, firearms or weapons. Especially considering that if those were the rules of the Fairgrounds, then the Club was violating them by allowing their own members to carry inside the venue. Not only that, but by the RCW 9.41.270 even a BB gun or sharp pointed Darts at a Fair Game booth can be considered as a weapon, makes that excuse a rather pathetic one.

The WAC needs to wake up and smell what they are shoveling.

 

[massivedesign]

Why don't some of you go out and put on your own show... See what the insurance and lessor requirements are at the venues you choose. Report back!

 

[Jim675]

I get that nearly all shows do this. I get that insurance goes up if they don't.
But, someday, there will be a local show that does not do this. And just like CC, and OC, and carry in church, and carry in banks, blood will not run in the aisles.

If our fellow Washingtonians felt like me and do not support WAC it would die. And its successor would implement the same policy, and die. But the market is still there and it will be filled again. Eventually someone would change the policy and charge more to get in to cover the insurance. Eventually the bean counters would notice that there's little (no?) statistical difference in accident rates. Word will spread.

Some state will do this eventually, I hope its us. We might have to go some period of time with no show and then, perhaps, higher tickets. Perhaps members could undergo additional training to lower rates. Or "hot" guns be marked with easily broken blaze orange tape at the door instead of being rendered useless. Except for the CC'd ones of course. Because they're ever-present anyway.

Restrictions, members only, extra certification - how could that possibly not work? ;/

 

[SpyderTattoo]

As well you or someone involved with the show should have.



Only four examples in how many thousands of Gun-Shows across the United States each year that are attended by how many people over-all?

I know a certified Firearms Instructor, who still doesn't practice keeping his finger off the trigger till he is ready to shoot, do I get nervous every time I see him reach for any weapon.. You bet I do.. But he is only one in the tens of thousands I have had to deal with over the years. So by WAC's standards, I should simply restrict everyone's rights just because they may be like him.

Sorry, that doesn't wash and I am still waiting for an honest answer. I have seen the rationalizations change to fit needs and try to revert focus away from the original issues.
Being:
* Why did they not insure that everywhere they advertised, ( It is. It's on their website and also stated in the radio adds. There isn't any more advertisement than that. )it was stated that only members could carry into the show? And I already made mention that I found out about the show through the NRA Website. Telling me that it is posted on the Clubs website is simply a rationalization!
* Why are they claiming that they were only following Fairgrounds rules when all the Rules I can find shown at TheFair.com do not mention a thing about guns, firearms or weapons. Especially considering that if those were the rules of the Fairgrounds, then the Club was violating them by allowing their own members to carry inside the venue. Not only that, but by the RCW 9.41.270 even a BB gun or sharp pointed Darts at a Fair Game booth can be considered as a weapon, makes that excuse a rather pathetic one.

The WAC needs to wake up and smell what they are shoveling.

Maybe you should spend some time there, volunteering at the OC table. You might see some mishandled firearms. As I've said before, I have been a member for 17 years and worked there for 2 years. I've seen a massive ammount of mishandled firearms.

 

[BigDave]

I get that nearly all shows do this. I get that insurance goes up if they don't.
But, someday, there will be a local show that does not do this. And just like CC, and OC, and carry in church, and carry in banks, blood will not run in the aisles.

I have heard the concept that the insurance goes up if loaded weapons are allowed in these events, but does it really happen?
How many businesses here in Washington State actually pay an additional cost for following State law, Walmart? Starbucks? Guns Stores or is it that we just buy into that argument that the insurance will go up?

 

[waterfowl woody]

I have been to WAC events and you know what made me laugh the most. The open carry table with a bunch of guys with zip ties in there carry guns. I thought the point of the table was to teach people about open carry being legal and our right, looks to me your rights are as good as a plastic zip tie! Then the big excuse is insurance. All that talk is a smoke screen. I don't buy it and if you do then assume that everywhere you go insurance will not allow you with your gun. Seems to me the people you need to inform is the WAC people and not the ones visiting.

I agree with previous post that we need to not support this kind of rights infringement, as its the same thing the government would try to pull. WAC shows offer very little and all can be had from any shop at the same price.

I will continue to spread the word as nobody should take anyones rights from them and if we let them what is next! If WAC wants there hand in the gun industries money jar then they better live by the laws. Oh if the insurance company doesn't like it GET ANOTHER ONE!!!

 

[LkWd_Don]

Maybe you should spend some time there, volunteering at the OC table. You might see some mishandled firearms. As I've said before, I have been a member for 17 years and worked there for 2 years. I've seen a massive ammount of mishandled firearms.

You do not get it do you?

I am beginning to think I need to break out a box of crayons and draw a picture to make it understandable, but knowing that we are all supposed to be adult here. I will try this again.


What part of !! EVERYWHERE !! do you not get?

I did not see the WAC AD at their WEBSITE!
I did not See or hear their Ad on the Radio!
I did not See it here till after I found I wasted my time/gas and just happened to find this thread!

I will say it again for like the 5th time!
Where it was that I saw it, was at the NRA Website! There was no mention of Members Only or any other specification that ONLY Members would be allowed to Carry or to Purchase in the venue.

Do you get it now?

Or do I need to try to speak more on a child's level for you to understand?

 

[LkWd_Don]

Why don't some of you go out and put on your own show... See what the insurance and lessor requirements are at the venues you choose. Report back!

I see that the rationalizations and sidestepping of the issue's/responsibilities is/are never ending on the part of the WAC.

You have convinced me that I now know all I need to know about the "WASHINGTON ARMS COLLECTORS, INC" of Renton Washington,
A Registered Nonprofit, ubi 601217298 originally licensed 07/28/1952


I can tell you that I will not be providing the type of Word of Mouth Advertising that you might consider to be in your best interest and as this is for all intents and purposes a public forum. You can rest assured that what I say will in no way reflect badly against me, as I have proof in writing to point to.

 

[LkWd_Don]

Restrictions, members only, extra certification - how could that possibly not work? ;/

They are doing that now (Meaning Only Members can carry in the Venue and according to what I have been told here, Only Members can Purchase in the venue) and that is not working as it is disparaging folks like myself and my wife or we would not have been talking to them about this.

 

[LkWd_Don]

I have heard the concept that the insurance goes up if loaded weapons are allowed in these events, but does it really happen?
How many businesses here in Washington State actually pay an additional cost for following State law, Walmart? Starbucks? Guns Stores or is it that we just buy into that argument that the insurance will go up?

It is very possible that it does, but by their own admission, they allow their own members to carry "concealed" in the venue, so if they are not paying the additional insurance rider and are allowing their members to carry in firearms, then they are outright committing FRAUD!
Or they are paying for the extra insurance rider for the weapons to be allowed in and then are simply infringing, abridging, disparaging and outright denying the rights of others.

As they are unwilling to produce proof and simply resort to rationalizations and misdirections, you will have to decide for yourself which the case is!

 

[massivedesign]

Here is a GREAT idea.

http://www.washingtonarmscollectors.org/admin.htm

There are tons of contacts there that you should discuss this with. OpenCarry.Org chooses to participate in the show because it is a VENUE in which a large group of 2A people come to visit. The venue itself is a great place to spread the word of OC. Sure, OCDO could boycott WAC, but does that help the movement or hinder it?

Call the WAC, I dare ya!

 

[LkWd_Don]

Here is a GREAT idea.

http://www.washingtonarmscollectors.org/admin.htm

There are tons of contacts there that you should discuss this with. OpenCarry.Org chooses to participate in the show because it is a VENUE in which a large group of 2A people come to visit. The venue itself is a great place to spread the word of OC. Sure, OCDO could boycott WAC, but does that help the movement or hinder it?

Call the WAC, I dare ya!

Dare?
I guess I was mistaken to think we were adults here and that the children were elsewhere.
I can tell that there are members of WAC here on this thread in the manners of responses.
Why should I make myself the victim of further disparagement by undertaking what you are saying to do?
If I contact them it would not be a conversation they would enjoy.

 

[massivedesign]

So the extent of your tantrum will be on the OpenCarry forum?

 

[LkWd_Don]

So the extent of your tantrum will be on the OpenCarry forum?

Goes to show what little you know.

I was trying to communicate with folks rationally and they have been nothing but RUDE and now you accuse me of a tantrum? Read my quote below now.

 

[gogodawgs]

You do not get it do you?

It is clear that you don't get it. You are new here and I suspect you won't be around for long.

 

[LkWd_Don]

It is clear that you don't get it. You are new here and I suspect you won't be around for long.

If you mean as a member of WAC.. not only are you correct.. but I am tempted to Say NEVER!

If you are saying that because I am new to the OpenCarry.org site, I will not be around for long, I guess we will see just how completely wrong you are.

I understand that a few of those who have been around longer might resort to harassment but even that has repercussions. Or is that another subject that you might need to brush up on?