When Dogs Attack. Self Defense Against Animals?

[rcawdor57]

Last night while walking my dogs a neighbors dog broke loose from their "flex leash" and charged me and my dog. This is the second time in the past four or five days this has happened and I thought we had resolved this "issue" with the neighbors. Apparently not. I was on the public sidewalk about a block from my house when this second attack occurred. As I approached the corner where the sidewalks meet at the end of the block the dog came running at full speed toward me. I was ready for him and managed to kick him hard with my boot. Aiming for his head I missed but instead hit him on the right side of his rib cage. He bolted down the sidewalk back to his house at full speed. I was livid to say the least and told my neighbor who had lost control of her dog that if it attacked me again I was going to kill it. She runs back to her house and by the time I get to my home her husband ambles over to me as my wife and I are opening our front door. He wasn't happy that I said I was going to kill their dog. I was not open carrying last night, I had my camo coat on so my gun was never part of any of this. I explained to him they are responsible for their dogs and what they do and to take measures to control them such as a harness and a legal leash. Flex leashes are not legal in Kenosha since they exceed the maximum length (either 6 or 8 feet, I can't remember what the ordinance states at this time). After a few more choice words he promised to "take measures so this won't happen again".

I can tell you the "Tueller Drill" doesn't apply to dogs. They are incredibly fast. I've been walking my dogs now for eleven years and ten years and have never had this happen before. Anyone have any thoughts on this I would appreciate. I have no intention of trying to shoot a dog in this situation for many reasons. Also keep in mind that I would only have one free hand at the most and have to control my dog at the same time this is happening. It wasn't fun.

 

[oliverclotheshoff]

maybe a good stiff medium length (cane length for ease of swing) walking stick to use as a defense weapon as needed or a pepper spray that is for animals possible problem with that is spraying your dog\s on accident

my thoughts

 

[WalkingWolf]

I would report the incident. I have been mauled by a dog and it is not something to take lightly. I only survived because my uncle killed the dog as soon as he saw the attack.

 

[pkbites]

a pepper spray that is for animals possible problem with that is spraying your dog\s on accident

In the course of my duties I've sprayed a few dogs with pepper spray over the years. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. One time I sprayed a huge aggressive Husky. In the eyes, snout, and mouth. It didn't do squat. I might as well have spit on him. And no, he wasn't rabid.

Some (but not all) dogs get totally freaked out by the crackling electrodes of a stun gun.

 

[marshaul]

I would report the incident. I have been mauled by a dog and it is not something to take lightly. I only survived because my uncle killed the dog as soon as he saw the attack.

Damn, that's a scary story. Care to share more details?

Specifically, how did your uncle kill the dog without endangering you? I've always worried about that with animals (they'll get right on their victim), but then again I've only personally witnessed one or two dog attacks.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Damn, that's a scary story. Care to share more details?

Specifically, how did your uncle kill the dog without endangering you? I've always worried about that with animals (they'll get right on their victim), but then again I've only personally witnessed one or two dog attacks.

I was a small child, sorry I don't remember exactly my age. He beat the dog off of me with a large stick, after the dog let go he continued to beat the dog for some time. I was taken to the hospital, and told that the dog would never bite me again. The dog had killed a duck when I just happened to stroll upon him, he must of thought I was going to take the duck away.

 

[davidmcbeth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o


I had one guy tell me his dog does not bite .. was he lying? You be the judge, linked above

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

I had a similar incident happen in Jan. I was out running my normal route with my lab, on a 3 foot leash. All of a sudden there was the neighbors chesapeake behind me growling and barking 20 feet away. I stopped and turned yelled as loud as I could. That slowed him down so I could finsh turning and face him he stopped about 10 feet away showing his teeth.

My lab being a super freindly dog is wagging is tail wanting to play. I reaching for my spray and yelling clearing my jacket away from my pistol (10 degrees above that day). I took a step towards him giving him commands to go home.

After about 30 seconds more growls and showing his teeth, a couple more steps seem a lot longer he turned and left to the house.

I call my neighbor up and told him what happen His words were simple quote (He said you should have shot him).

We talk abit about training and that he needs to make sure is dog stays around the house . They have a 100 yard plus driveway. He said that is bitch was in heat and that way his male might have been more aggressive. He said he take care of the problem and see that it doesn't happen again. He said any more trouble and the dog is going for a long walk and never coming back.

I have delt with 100s of dogs in my 33 years as as a LEO, runner and bike rider never had to shoot one, sprayed quite a few and it has worked.

I think that it helps that I am experience dog trainer and can read dogs fairly well. But it as been close a few times and the dog backed down just before he was going to get shot or the spray did the trick.

I seen enough dog bites to know that if its me being bite or the dog its going to be the dog.

 

[rcawdor57]

I had a similar incident happen in Jan. I was out running my normal route with my lab, on a 3 foot leash. All of a sudden there was the neighbors chesapeake behind me growling and barking 20 feet away. I stopped and turned yelled as loud as I could. That slowed him down so I could finsh turning and face him he stopped about 10 feet away showing his teeth.

My lab being a super freindly dog is wagging is tail wanting to play. I reaching for my spray and yelling clearing my jacket away from my pistol (10 degrees above that day). I took a step towards him giving him commands to go home.

After about 30 seconds more growls and showing his teeth, a couple more steps seem a lot longer he turned and left to the house.

I call my neighbor up and told him what happen His words were simple quote (He said you should have shot him).

We talk abit about training and that he needs to make sure is dog stays around the house . They have a 100 yard plus driveway. He said that is bitch was in heat and that way his male might have been more aggressive. He said he take care of the problem and see that it doesn't happen again. He said any more trouble and the dog is going for a long walk and never coming back.

I have delt with 100s of dogs in my 33 years as as a LEO, runner and bike rider never had to shoot one, sprayed quite a few and it has worked.

I think that it helps that I am experience dog trainer and can read dogs fairly well. But it as been close a few times and the dog backed down just before he was going to get shot or the spray did the trick.

I seen enough dog bites to know that if its me being bite or the dog its going to be the dog.

Thanks. Your event was scary to say the least. Sounds like you are out in the country a bit and had a moment to clear your weapon & prepare. The attack the other day was instant. I'm heading down the sidewalk towards the corner of the block and the neighbor is heading to the same corner from the other sidewalk. As soon as her dog (she actually had two dogs with her, one is friendly the other is vicious) saw me and my dog it was in motion. She didn't have a harness or collar on him that is appropriate for handling a dog so he ran to the full length of the "retractable leash" and pulled his head out of the collar. He was maybe twenty feet from me and was running at full speed directly toward me & my dog. When the dog attacked me and my dogs the first time I was in my driveway entering the code to open the garage door so we could go inside at the end of our walk. I never saw him coming on the first attack since there is a Cedar tree next to my garage that I was standing next to as their dog pounced on my dog. This time I saw him coming & as he charged I kicked him like a football. I didn't have time to do anything else but kick. Total time from first sight to kick was maybe two seconds. I didn't even have time to push the button on my camera I wear on my coat. It was that quick. If I had not been able to land that blow to his rib cage it would have been bloody and I probably would have gotten to my Glock and shot her dog.

Well, here is an update: After our "talk" to the guy next door about his dogs the other day he actually listened & bought harnesses and non retractable 6 foot leashes to walk his dogs. They also installed barricades so their dogs cannot get to the front door and run out whenever their young boys open the door (that has happened several times but the vicious dog has not gotten out in the past until the first dog attack). They were lucky their dog didn't go after my other neighbor's Boxers when she walks them. Sooner or later that dog of theirs will be a liability they can't afford.

Forgot to add that I now have "Direct Stop" to use in the future. It's designed to instantly stop dogs and not harm them as pepper spray may do. I hope I don't have to use it.

 

[rcawdor57]

Citronella based Spray Shield/Direct Stop won't even stop mosquitoes. Skunk spray "interrupts attacks by surprising and distracting animals with a powerful and unusual scent."

I was wondering about that myself. I was looking at "Bear spray" but listened to the sales person who insisted "Direct Stop" would be much better. So much for that! LOL. I'm going to head out today & get some Bear Spray. Thanks for the info!

 

[Mr Face]

Last night while walking my dogs a neighbors dog broke loose from their "flex leash" and charged me and my dog. This is the second time in the past four or five days this has happened and I thought we had resolved this "issue" with the neighbors. Apparently not. I was on the public sidewalk about a block from my house when this second attack occurred. As I approached the corner where the sidewalks meet at the end of the block the dog came running at full speed toward me. I was ready for him and managed to kick him hard with my boot. Aiming for his head I missed but instead hit him on the right side of his rib cage. He bolted down the sidewalk back to his house at full speed. I was livid to say the least and told my neighbor who had lost control of her dog that if it attacked me again I was going to kill it. She runs back to her house and by the time I get to my home her husband ambles over to me as my wife and I are opening our front door. He wasn't happy that I said I was going to kill their dog. I was not open carrying last night, I had my camo coat on so my gun was never part of any of this. I explained to him they are responsible for their dogs and what they do and to take measures to control them such as a harness and a legal leash. Flex leashes are not legal in Kenosha since they exceed the maximum length (either 6 or 8 feet, I can't remember what the ordinance states at this time). After a few more choice words he promised to "take measures so this won't happen again".

I can tell you the "Tueller Drill" doesn't apply to dogs. They are incredibly fast. I've been walking my dogs now for eleven years and ten years and have never had this happen before. Anyone have any thoughts on this I would appreciate. I have no intention of trying to shoot a dog in this situation for many reasons. Also keep in mind that I would only have one free hand at the most and have to control my dog at the same time this is happening. It wasn't fun.

Not a good plan kicking and then threatening to kill your neighbor's pet. Sometimes payback can be a #####. One has to be very, very sure about what constitutes provocation in order to kill someone's pet. It does not take much to be charged with felony animal cruelty or abuse.

 

[marshaul]

Not a good plan kicking and then threatening to kill your neighbor's pet. Sometimes payback can be a #####. One has to be very, very sure about what constitutes provocation in order to kill someone's pet. It does not take much to be charged with felony animal cruelty or abuse.

Not a good plan letting your pet get out of control. It does not take much for someone to shoot it in self-defense, legally.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

Responding with the kick sounds right in that situation. One does what one needs do to at the time.

 

[Mr Face]

http://www.animallawcoalition.com/animal-cruelty/article/1906
Wisconsin Assembly Bill 401

 

[marshaul]

http://www.animallawcoalition.com/animal-cruelty/article/1906
Wisconsin Assembly Bill 401

Hmm, I don't see anything repealing the right to self-defense against dangerous dogs.

 

[Mr Face]

Hmm, I don't see anything repealing the right to self-defense against dangerous dogs.

What one individual perceives as a threat by a neighbor's dog may not actually be one. The individual who started this thread I guess should video record one of these altercations and contact the proper authorities. Let the authorities decide what is and is not.

 

[Trip20]

Face: No where does it state I need to wait to be attacked (i.e., literally in the process of being mauled) before I'm able to use deadly force against an animal. I have a reasonable expectation to not feel threatened or intimidated by unrestrained animals as I go about my business in public places. Therefore, under the right circumstances when I've determined the "AOJ" criteria is satisfied I have no problem using deadly force against an animal -- or human for that matter -- when it's evident I have no reasonable means of retreat or viable less-than-lethal option available. This also means I do not have to have video and the blessings of some authority before doing so.

If you're not the latest reincarnations of logibles and you're merely trying to interject the message that due diligence before deadly force is a good idea, there's nothing wrong with that and you'd be correct (and also acting like Mr. Obvious). Your decision to link to irrelevant animal cruelty jargon when the OP is clearly an animal lover and is looking to do everything but hurt this animal leads me to believe you're not here with friendly intent.

 

[WalkingWolf]

What one individual perceives as a threat by a neighbor's dog may not actually be one. The individual who started this thread I guess should video record one of these altercations and contact the proper authorities. Let the authorities decide what is and is not.

Your joking right? Please tell me you are joking? Have you ever been bite, attacked, mauled? Let me get this straight, a person has a dog with bared teeth coming at them, charging somewhere around 30 mph, with the ability to rip their throat out. AND YOU WANT THEM TO VIDEO TAPE IT?

Amazing just amazing!

 

[Mr Face]

Your joking right? Please tell me you are joking? Have you ever been bite, attacked, mauled? Let me get this straight, a person has a dog with bared teeth coming at them, charging somewhere around 30 mph, with the ability to rip their throat out. AND YOU WANT THEM TO VIDEO TAPE IT?

Amazing just amazing!

So where does it say the pet's charging speed? Where does it say what breed or size of the the neighbor's pet? Since similar incidents have happened in the past according to the thread starter, one could be prepared to video tape it.

 

[WalkingWolf]

So where does it say the pet's charging speed? Where does it say what breed or size of the the neighbor's pet? Since similar incidents have happened in the past according to the thread starter, one could be prepared to video tape it.

Any person with a small amount of common sense knows that dogs charge at a alarming rate, much faster than a person. They are capable of 30 mph bursts of speed. I would hardly think any reasonable person being charged by a animal intent on doing harm would be thinking of video taping it. It is either a joke or lunacy.

I was mauled by a border collie as a child, a breed that is normally thought of as docile, they are fast, very fast.

The Border Collie — Built For Speed And Cornering
Long acknowledged for being one of the top Einsteins in the dog world, the workaholic Border Collie is designed to move quickly and make hairpin turns in order to direct large flocks over what are sometimes long distances. Border Collies can corner like fine sports cars, maintaining control and speed through turns, skills that also serve them well in canine sports such as agility, fly ball and flying disc competitions. These black-and-white torpedoes have been clocked at speeds of up to 30 mph. And noted for their intense gaze, Border Collies are recognized for keeping their eye on the prize.

“To be honest, in a race between a Greyhound and a Border Collie, my bets will always be on the Border Collie,” Dr. Zink says.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/fastest-dogs-in-the-world_n_1914037.html#slide=1568419