Where is everybody??

[solus]

A dentist's view inside the mouths of those sitting at the kiddie table.

cloudcraft...remember the olde CO forum's posted nonsense which led to its terminal cycle to demise...

 

[color of law]

cloudcraft...remember the olde CO forum's posted nonsense which led to its terminal cycle to demise...

I guess John wants his form to suffer an agonizing death.

 

[OC for ME]

This site will remain up until the pre-paids are exhausted...

 

[cloudcroft]

cloudcraft...remember the olde CO forum's posted nonsense which led to its terminal cycle to demise...

Yes, I remember. :-(
As for LEOs (in Texas) stopping OCers -- when that is the ONLY thing they are doing ("just OCing") -- IRCC that's already been determined (courts?) that a person merely OCing is NOT a RAS to stop/question them and will only get said LEOs who DO ask to see an OCer's permit (LTC = License-to-Carry) in trouble. Maybe even sued by the victim -- the way many Police Depts learn (apparently): The Hard Way, when certain cities had to pay-out some lawsuit cash. So they don't do it anymore. Consequently, I think all the police chiefs in TX know by now not to mess with citizen OCers.
I know the last 4 years I was OCing in ELP, TX (2016-2020), none of the many LEOs (City PD Cops, Sheriff Deputies) I saw/saw me -- when I was out & about or when they were hired as Security in stores, after that Walmart mass-shooting in there (also in ELP) -- ever asked for my permit. And MOST of the LEOs ("professionals") didn't even notice (!) I WAS OCing! Incredible, but that's another topic, yes?
Only ONE time did a security guard ("Brosnan," a private armed-security company) at a Walmart Neighborhood Market do so, as he said the store told him he had to ask (and that was when Walmart was still allwoing OC, just before they "requested" customers not to OC anymore). That was about 2 months after said mass-shooting in ELP -- until then OCing was still fine -- until Walmart (and all the supermarkets followed its lead) asked people CC only. I just put it in my pocket and went in with an empty holster.
So TMK, LEOs in TX can't ask for a LTC (License-to-Carry) permit -- which I agree is a bad law Gov. Abbott signed, as a permit IS required to do either CC or OC -- UNLESS they are doing something illegal that DOES give the cops a RAS to stop/question someone.
...or perhaps the cops there in ELP thought I was "Homeland Security" -- as that table of Yuppies/old Hippies at a Starbucks in ABQ thought I was. ;-)
Anyway, am still waiting to get my CC permit here in COS: My first app't was rescheduled, so I go later this month (with $135 in hand). My TX LTC permit is good until March 8th, but don't think I'll get the CO CC permit by then. But unlike TX -- as you noted -- I don't need a permit to OC in CO, so I can still do that MOST of the time. Not so in TX: You're UNarmed (if you're law-abiding, that is) the entire time it takes to get your LTC as you can't OC in the meantime (like CO and NM)...I'm hoping TX CHANGES that ASAP! Or at best, even go Constitutional Carry.
Then come March, another expense: I'll be forced to get a 2021 Chevy Colorado ZR2 (in "Sand Dune Metallic" color) -- "forced" because after all, I live (back) in CO now and so I desperately "need" it. The voices told me so and we all know they MUST be obeyed. ;-)
Whatever, I'll be needing to move my 2 small car-safes from my present vehicle to the ZR2, and also find a good place for my car-gun (SKS) also.
Hope there's room.
-- C

 

[cloudcroft]

I guess John wants his form to suffer an agonizing death.

Does he even come around here anymore?
-- C

 

[solus]

Cloud, your kind attention to, TX SEC 411.205 REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. QUOTE
If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder’s person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder’s driver’s license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder’s handgun license. UNQUOTE
https://texas.public.law/statutes/tex._gov't_code_section_411.205?highlight=411.205&hide=no

judicial discussion is here:

Can The Police Stop a Texas Open Carrier to Check for a License? - The Truth About Guns

A raging debate nearly derailed the new Open Carry law in Texas (which will take effect on January 1). It centered around the so-called “Dutton Amendment” or “Dutton/Huffines Amendment.” Briefly stated, the amendment forbid police officers from stopping and detaining an open-carrier to check...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Per handgunlaw.us regarding OC, quote:
Open Carry is legal in Colorado with exceptions. Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above apply to those who open carry. Those who open Carry also have more restrictions than those with a Concealed Carry Permit/License. Public Transportation is off limits to those who Open Carry. (See 18-9-118) See the “RV/Car Carry Without a Permit” section for carrying in a vehicle. Denver won a court case stating it can control Open Carry in Denver and Open Carry is illegal in Denver. Other cities have banned Open Carry on their city owned property. Unquote

https://handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

 

[cloudcroft]

Solus...I'm still confused re: the issue. Probably a good thing I never became a lawyer?
And sites like this "help" my confusion, as they seem to say something different:

When Can the Police Ask to See An Open Carry License in Texas? - Shook and Gunter

The Texas Open Carry law goes into effect January 1, 2016 and it will be interesting to see how law enforcement handles encounters […]

shookandgunter.com

"Red" state TX has the worst and most backwards carry law of all the states around it. OK had the same (and so also backwards) law TX has now (permit required to CC/OC) until it got "woke" and went Constitutional Carry. TX still slumbers...
Hope TX goes "free" OC soon, Constitutional Carry would be even better.
As for CO, I don't really GO anywhere it's illegal to OC (I CC temporarily), and now that the new VA Medical Facility is finally opened (in Aurora, CO) I don't even have to go to Denver, either...but I DO go to all the suburbs AROUND Denver (like Aurora) and OC in all of them. NOT at the VA though (of course!).
Both "purple" state CO and "blue" state NM have better carry laws tan "red" state TX.
Go figure.
To be honest though, I only am "concerned" about carrying where there are metal detectors. Otherwise, no, not really.
Besides, being a simple gorilla of limited ability to grasp complex ideas, that's the best I can do, so the KISS Principle works better for someone like me: I just carry and don't fret about it.
Endeavoring to persevere,
-- C

 

[solus]

Alas cloud, the article was to show how politically buggered up TX's firearm statutes were allowed to become during their push to fix their firearm carry inadequacies over 5 years ago. Took the politicos over a hundred years to "fix" [tongue in cheek] OC for the state's citizens so i wouldn't believe any change is forthcoming to rectifying any clarity in if/maybe/can LEs stopping OC carry citizens and posing the infamous question - "papers please!"

as for the land of disenchantment firearm carry being better...sorry must disagree cuz the state's 16 hour course, including mandatory conflict de-escalation training, citizens permitted to only being able to carry the caliber they live-fired during said initial training, [citizens must live-fire on addition calibers to carry those], only carry one firearm, instructors are constantly "threatened' by DPS that their agents might/could/will audit their classes to assure the instructors are "teaching the material right", and the entire DPS concealed group is run my idiots from SF down!

CO HAD, in the recent past, better carry until the 'foreigners' [ca, eastern block invasion, etc.] moved in and public favour switched to anti mentality. That stated tho, in the recent past CO legislators got recalled in your neck of the woods for the stance against firearms...but as stated that was the past...

A lot has changed regarding carry in both NM & CO and i'm afraid not for the best for their citizens' interests!

Good to see your smile - go well and stay warm & safe in the mile high region

 

[cocked&locked]

Where is everybody? GONE! Cause nobody wants to hear the crap coming out of the mouths of Col, Solis and the rest of the idiots sitting at the kiddie table!

Adios, idiots!

 

[solus]

Where is everybody? GONE! Cause nobody wants to hear the crap coming out of the mouths of Col, Solis and the rest of the idiots sitting at the kiddie table!

Adios, idiots!

cocked&locked, could you please point out where CoL, the rest of the idiots, oh yes, myself, have ever initially, oh and consistently, personally degrade other forum members or post disgusting memes in a direct attack to discredit the forum?

i'll wait!

 

[color of law]

Article I (Bill of Rights) of the Texas Constitution:

Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

Sec. 29. BILL OF RIGHTS EXCEPTED FROM POWERS OF GOVERNMENT AND INVIOLATE. To guard against transgressions of the high powers herein delegated, we declare that everything in this “Bill of Rights” is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate, and all laws contrary thereto, or to the following provisions, shall be void.

Let’s look at Section 29:

The guarantees found in the Bill of Rights are excepted from the general powers of government; the State has no power to commit acts contrary to the guarantees found in the Bill of Rights. Texas Constitution, Article 1, Section 29. Section 29 has been interpreted as follows: any provision of the Bill of Rights is self-executing to the extent that anything done in violation of it is void. Hemphill v. Watson, 60 Tex. 679, 681 (1884). When a law conflicts with rights guaranteed by Article 1, the Constitution declares that such acts are void because the Bill of Rights is a limit on State power. Id. The framers of the Texas Constitution articulated what they intended to be the means of remedying a constitutional violation. The framers intended that a law contrary to a constitutional provision is void.

Now, as to the right to keep and “openly” bear arms without a license/permit constitutionally permissible? Yes, because the legislators only have authority to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime. Upholding a concealed weapon ban because it prohibits a particular mode of bearing arms which is found to be dangerous to the peace of society may be reasonable. But because a right exists a complete ban on open carry and concealed carry would be unconstitutional, in effect, requiring a permission slip to do both.

As an example, Texas law knows that open carry is constitutional just by the plain reading of the Texas Penal Code Section 42.01(a)(8). DISORDERLY CONDUCT. “(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly: (8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm[.]” Openly displaying a weapon and not causing alarm is not a crime, and no mention of needing a license either.

Now, Texas Penal Code Section 46.035(a) says: “A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a shoulder or belt holster by the license holder.” From the plain reading it seems open carry is illegal if you have a license. No license, no crime in open carrying.

With all that said, I have not found any case law addressing constitutionality of open carry. If anyone knows of any cases addressing the issue, please post.

 

[Ghost1958]

I left because of real life problems to try to deal with .
I hesitated to come back because i had reached the limit of my patience with KC3 and Gutshots Misinformation campaigns and constantly pushing bad bills .

 

[color of law]

I left because of real life problems to try to deal with .
I hesitated to come back because i had reached the limit of my patience with KC3 and Gutshots Misinformation campaigns and constantly pushing bad bills .

Gutshot hasn't posted in months. I think Gutshot doesn't like any of us. Gutshot does come and looks. Come on back.

Buy the way, you live across the river from me and not having many OC guys around, it gets lonely. PM me if you would like.

 

[JTHunter2]

Adios, idiots!

And the same to you.

While I understand the reluctance of OC for many, due in no small measure to the numerous "Karens" out there that could cause all kinds of grief. It also has the ability/disability to both dissuade some perps while possibly encouraging others, making the OCer a target.
But there are some people that prefer to OC due to physical limitations that are (or would be) aggravated by CC. Several years ago, I had a gentleman make me a "plain-Jane" leather belt and holster for a 4" GP-100. It is set so the gun's butt is just below the point of my hip which makes it easier to draw without putting as much stress on my elbow and shoulder.
As I also have a "weight problem", an IWB with my .380 still prints unacceptably - besides being uncomfortable. Wearing an IWB in the summer is an exercise in futility when you are wearing shorts and a T-shirt and still perspire quite profusely.

 

[color of law]

Not wearing a mask is the new open carry.

 

[CJ4wd]

"Masks are for crooks and the Lone Ranger."

 

[cocked&locked]

And the same to you.

While I understand the reluctance of OC for many, due in no small measure to the numerous "Karens" out there that could cause all kinds of grief. It also has the ability/disability to both dissuade some perps while possibly encouraging others, making the OCer a target.
But there are some people that prefer to OC due to physical limitations that are (or would be) aggravated by CC. Several years ago, I had a gentleman make me a "plain-Jane" leather belt and holster for a 4" GP-100. It is set so the gun's butt is just below the point of my hip which makes it easier to draw without putting as much stress on my elbow and shoulder.
As I also have a "weight problem", an IWB with my .380 still prints unacceptably - besides being uncomfortable. Wearing an IWB in the summer is an exercise in futility when you are wearing shorts and a T-shirt and still perspire quite profusely.

Of course, the kiddie table never has the correct solution to the problem at hand. The correct solution is to get your sloppy, fat, ugly ass into Gold's Gym and get in shape! LOL

 

[KBCraig]

Please, pray tell, what gun forum doesn't have squabbling?

None.

But what they don't have, is three jackasses trying to shout down everyone, including each other, ensuring that everyone who attempts to participate gives up and leaves.

 

[solus]

None.

But what they don't have, is three jackasses trying to shout down everyone, including each other, ensuring that everyone who attempts to participate gives up and leaves.

so KB, crocked&locked diminutive and degrading and condensing commentary towards members as you now have now added your own diminutive and degrading commentary towards forum members while seated at the kiddy table... hummm???

so KB might i inquire if you can tell me when the last time i have publicly called any forum member a jackass?

casting stones and so forth...ad nauseam...

ps might review the commentary on north/south west forums or NV's forum, etc....see any manure memes slung there towards members or other member's calling out their peers as jackasses?