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Women and OC

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,489
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

mnrobitaille

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
313
Location
Kahlotus, WA
... People who OC are rarely victims of crime, very rare, unicorn rare. OTH many business that welcome OC are not normally victims of crime. I know of only one case in Virginia, and it did not work out so well for the armed robber, who probably did not even know that there was an OCer in the market. There were no incidence of violent crime at any place where OCT were carrying. There is a posted BBQ restaurant in Raleigh that is posted, it has been robbed numerous times. But there are studies of inmates in prison who come out and say that they avoid armed citizens, but that is hard to tell who is CCing, and who is not. Why sometimes CCers are targeted, even if they come out on top they are still a target....

Part of the issue with OCing is that yes there are many businesses that welcome OCers, but at the same time there are many which, like stated above, would rather leave their customers disarmed. If you visit those businesses where they want everyone disarmed, what are you going to do then?

Both CCers & OCers need to have situational awareness while carrying, but that doesn't mean they can't lead normal lives. When I OC, I use a couple of different holster designs depending on where I am going & the planned activities for the day. My primary holster for my Smith & Wesson M&P Shield .40 is the Alien Gear ShapeShift Modular Holster System, so I can switch between IWB or OWB, Belt Slide or Paddle, just by changing the holster configuration. When I use the Paddle configuration, I have the thumb release for added retention. For the Belt Slide, I do not. Both the Belt Slide & Paddle are OWB. The IWB is like the Belt Slide.

On post #4 of Alien Gear Holsters ShapeShift Modular Holster System I have pictures of the different configurations.
 

MamaLiberty

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
895
Location
Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
Depends so much on where you live, mnrobitaille. Here in rural Wyoming, there isn't any business (that I know of) that cares the least one way or another. There are no "no guns" signs anywhere here. There used to be a few, but they've been gone for a long time now.

Most people here are armed, one way or another, and it is not remarkable in the least to see them. I carry openly everywhere I go, every day. Except the post awful... just don't go there at all. :)
 

mnrobitaille

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
313
Location
Kahlotus, WA
Depends so much on where you live, mnrobitaille. Here in rural Wyoming, there isn't any business (that I know of) that cares the least one way or another. There are no "no guns" signs anywhere here. There used to be a few, but they've been gone for a long time now.

Most people here are armed, one way or another, and it is not remarkable in the least to see them. I carry openly everywhere I go, every day. Except the post awful... just don't go there at all. :)

Washington State is basically a different animal from Wyoming. On my side of the state (Eastern Washington aka less crazy/less liberal side), there are not quite as many "no guns" signs/businesses, but every hospital/medical clinic, Costco, shopping mall, & movie theater is a victim-rich zone. Go over to Western Washington, & it's a different story as you have to tread carefully when OCing (especially in Seattle, Bellevue, & Tacoma).
 

TotinMama

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Messages
11
Location
PA
Pennsylvania has a VERY strong CC culture but if I see two OCers in a month I'd be surprised. Because it isn't common, there isn't a single business I can think of with "no firearms" signs. We don't have local police, and the closest state trooper barracks is 30 minutes away, so people born and raised here are accustomed to protecting themselves. Problem is we've had a huge influx over the last 10 years of liberals moving into the area. I'm pretty sure if I OCd into say Walmart, someone would call the police. Which of course would be fine because by the time they arrived I'd be back at home already cooking the groceries I just purchased. Funny how that doesn't seem to resonate with the anti gun crew. They prefer to jump on Facebook and complain about the growing drug problem and resulting crime.

Also interesting to me is we have a Castle Doctrine and Stand your ground but WITHOUT a disparity of force clause (although we have a bill in the House to add it under consideration).
 
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mnrobitaille

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
313
Location
Kahlotus, WA
Pennsylvania has a VERY strong CC culture but if I see two OCers in a month I'd be surprised. Because it isn't common, there isn't a single business I can think of with "no firearms" signs. We don't have local police, and the closest state trooper barracks is 30 minutes away, so people born and raised here are accustomed to protecting themselves. Problem is we've had a huge influx over the last 10 years of liberals moving into the area. I'm pretty sure if I OCd into say Walmart, someone would call the police. Which of course would be fine because by the time they arrived I'd be back at home already cooking the groceries I just purchased. Funny how that doesn't seem to resonate with the anti gun crew. They prefer to jump on Facebook and complain about the growing drug problem and resulting crime.

Also interesting to me is we have a Castle Doctrine and Stand your ground but WITHOUT a disparity of force clause (although we have a bill in the House to add it under consideration).

Walmart follows local & state statutes when it comes to carrying of firearms within the stores.

I've OC'd into the 4 Walmarts in my area with no associates causing a scene, just customers sidestepping or keeping their distance. I've OC'd into our 2 local Targets as well, with no response from any of the team members. Target guests seem to not even pay attention to their surroundings.

Only places I've had problems with carrying (both OC & CC), is at one of the 3 local hospitals & at Costco. The hospital issue was that I was with my wife in the emergency department & was OCing at the time when security stopped me & told me I couldn't carry (though I've OC'd there before with no one saying anything). Costco was due to the fact that my cc'd firearm became accidentally seen when I was putting my wallet away right after entering the warehouse.
 

oljames3

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
10
Location
Central Texas
Hello everyone. I'm a new member, but have been lurking for quite some time. I appreciate the (usually :lol:) intelligent and thoughtful discussions here.

I've CC'd for over 20 years, but never felt comfortable OCing. I never had confidence in my ability to fend off a real attempt to grab my firearm. But now that I'm...ahem... "well" into middle age I've been having conversations with my husband around me OCing while hiking and bike riding alone. He is all for it, believing that the deterrent is much more important than any advantage I get from CC. I would only OC in these situations where I'm not around crowds of people. I'm looking for other opinions. I know there are tons of badass women out there who could beat the crap out of any man who went for their weapon, and I'm no shrinking violet. But I am getting older and I need to be realistic.

So, the women who OC, does it ever cross your mind? And men, if your wife made the decision to OC, how would you feel about it? Thanks!!
:banana::monkey:banana::monkey
We live in Texas and both have our License To Carry (a handgun). When my wife said she wanted to start carrying openly, I did my happy dance.

O. L James III
Captain, US Army (Ret) cannons and Pershing missile
 
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Grapeshot

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Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
:banana::monkey:banana::monkey
We live in Texas and both have our License To Carry (a handgun). When my wife said she wanted to start carrying openly, I did my happy dance.

O. L James III
Captain, US Army (Ret) cannons and Pershing missile

Early Christmas present to be appreciated by both. Out of the closet and into the sunlight...
icon14.png
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,754
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
On the subject of OC being a deterrent: For a variety of reasons, I must regularly go to my local Wal Mart after sunset. While it is not in what some would call a "bad" neighborhood, it still has its varmints hanging out in the parking lot. Being very situationally aware, as I get out of my car, I cannot help but notice the looks and the individual(s) trying to come my way unnoticed. What they see to begin with is an elderly white male who, by their lights, should be an easy victim. As soon as they get close enough to see what is on my right hip, they, almost comically, find that they have urgent business elsewhere.

I have only had one incident with Wal Mart management. One of our former members knew the district manager and reported it to him. The store manager who caused the problem was no longer working for Wal Mart within less than seventy-two hours.

As concerns weapon retention; your state law enforcement is probably the best bet for information on training. If they cannot offer you training, most will be quite happy to give you advice on trainers in your area.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
...
I have only had one incident with Wal Mart management. One of our former members knew the district manager and reported it to him. The store manager who caused the problem was no longer working for Wal Mart within less than seventy-two hours.

While one does not want a lower level manager deciding policy according to their bias, is it not better to re-educate and get the person on the side of rational self-defense interest instead of getting them 'let go' and remaining an enemy to the 2A and OC?

If possible, I'd suggest it's a better plan to make a friend and not take any glee (not saying you did) in getting someone let go because of them being ignorant of policy or reactionary needlessly.

What, if you can say, exactly happened in WM with this manager?
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
768
Location
Central Ky.
While one does not want a lower level manager deciding policy according to their bias, is it not better to re-educate and get the person on the side of rational self-defense interest instead of getting them 'let go' and remaining an enemy to the 2A and OC?

If possible, I'd suggest it's a better plan to make a friend and not take any glee (not saying you did) in getting someone let go because of them being ignorant of policy or reactionary needlessly.

What, if you can say, exactly happened in WM with this manager?
Seems like an excellent educational tool to me. I doubt that he will forget very soon.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,489
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
While one does not want a lower level manager deciding policy according to their bias, is it not better to re-educate and get the person on the side of rational self-defense interest instead of getting them 'let go' and remaining an enemy to the 2A and OC?

If possible, I'd suggest it's a better plan to make a friend and not take any glee (not saying you did) in getting someone let go because of them being ignorant of policy or reactionary needlessly.

What, if you can say, exactly happened in WM with this manager?
I have NO sympathy for any employee not knowing company policy, none.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,907
Location
here nc
While one does not want a lower level manager deciding policy according to their bias, is it not better to re-educate and get the person on the side of rational self-defense interest instead of getting them 'let go' and remaining an enemy to the 2A and OC?

If possible, I'd suggest it's a better plan to make a friend and not take any glee (not saying you did) in getting someone let go because of them being ignorant of policy or reactionary needlessly.

What, if you can say, exactly happened in WM with this manager?

some how i seriously this specific event led to the Mgr. being let go, but perhaps was the straw which broke the proverbial camel's back...

just saying...:rolleyes:
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,754
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
To answer several questions: 1. I was OCing in my local store. This manager confronted me and ordered me out of "her" store in the rudest possible manner. This in front of my wife. 2. Although I tried to tell her both Wal Mart policy and Alabama law, she told me, in so many words, that she didn't care; there would be no guns in "her" store. 3. No, it was not just the one incident that got her fired. She had been abrasive to both customers and staff and had been warned. 4. While I take no delight in someone losing a job, this was a case where, in his own words, the district manager was left with no choice.

The two loss prevention people with her looked like thugs and tried to act that way. Not a good idea to even act in a threatening manner, which they did, toward someone who is visibly armed and much older.

I met the district manager several weeks later. He had the good grace to, although unnecessarily, apologize to me for her actions. I assured him that I did not blame him and much appreciated both his actions and his apology. His only question to me was, "What are you carrying?" That caused a thirty-plus minute discussion of 1911s and their variants. Nice guy.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,907
Location
here nc
please understand the majority of customers fail to complain to someone, e.g., Mgr/District Mgr, who can CHANGE or MITIGATE the situation for the customer.

instead the slighted customer fail to return and then, before social media, tell upwards to 20 of their friends about their issue(s). (social media is an instantaneous notification mega 'friends/acquaintances, and death peal to retailers as their customer base sags due to perceived bad customer reverence.

what you did SFC was notified those in control of a problem, no less if there was a safety issue, and that Sr. Mgmt reacted shows this individual has the presence to recognize a valued customer who listening and dealt with your issue in an appropriate manner.

KUDOs to them and of course to you as you handled it as a professional would.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,907
Location
here nc
What doe (sic) this mean?

oh goody another grammarist and i caught them fair & square with my missing word ploy!

welcome to the Open Carry forum,

where ya from, whatcha pack’g on a daily basis?

have a great holiday filled w/friens and family
 
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