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Being hassled by Milwaukee PD right now

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Business parking lots are premises held out to the public for use of their motor vehicles and not the same as you sitting in your driveway or even on your own private property. If this argument is raised it will be up to the courts to decide.
In the big picture this may not be relevent[sic] when investigating suspected loitering which may be more relevent[sic] to demanding that a person identify themselves.
Your definition is incorrect -
Business parking lots are private property held out to the public who wish to patronize that business.

It does not give license to park at the McBurger's parking lot so you can eat at the Fish&Chips next door.
It does not give license for the local AllYouCanEatMeat restaurant to use the next door Mom&Pop's parking lot for their overflow parking.
It does not mean someone can park their 40' motorhome in parking lot of the local Stop&Rob for the duration of their two week summer vacation just because the Stop&Rob is the closest parking to the beach without the permission of the establishment's owners.
With the permission of the business owner, it is exactly like me sitting in my driveway to fix my car, or to hook up to the local wi-fi.

The law does not hold that a parking lot on private property is a public accommodation.
 

BROKENSPROKET

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
2,199
Location
Trempealeau County
So.... why are we harassing people that are putting caveats on donating their hard earned money?

I have used that logic for others in the past.

Personally, I am going to give because I know MKEGal and I want to. If others want to limit their assistance to a specific gun charge, let them be. WCI has basically said they aren't going to get involved unless there is a gun charge either.

And the circumstances need to fit the goal.

Mr. Clark explains:
Nik Clark on WCI-FB

It goes without saying we have been gathering information with heightened interest as it becomes available. We/I haven't been contacted by Krysta, so to this point, the only information made available to us is what we have seen/read in the... media/posted on here. Previous experience has led us to not jump to conclusions based on those data sources.

In addition, Krysta has legal counsel, so we trust that her attorney is providing her with the proper advise in planning their legal strategy. WCI shouldn't impose itself upon that, but of course, we will review any request for involvement from us.

Just speaking in general to our practice/philosophy on matters like this:

As an organization, we wouldn't have the resources to be involved every time a person who happens to be carrying gets in trouble with the law. We are looking for right to carry issues. Example, if you were jaywalking while OC'ing and you get arrested for jaywalking, you may well think it was because you were OC'ing and you may well be right, but in the eyes of the law, if you were jaywalking, you were jaywalking. Because of the range of possibilities of disposing of the state/municipal charges/forfeitures/etc, accused individuals often prefer, and should be given the maximum opportunity to do what is in their personal best interest when they face charges. Once charges are disposed of, pursuing civil suits does not pose a risk to a person in terms of citations/forfeitures/criminal charges.

What is in Krysta's best interest may not be in the best interest of Wisconsin Carry and our membership. As an example, it may be in WCI's best interest if Krysta IS charged with CCW because that may potentially be (depending on all the details of the encounter) the kind of precedent setting case that we would like to see some common sense CURRENT case-law established post Article 1 Sec. 25, post Act 35. Obviously, for Krysta, she will be hoping to not be charged at all.

If she is charged and WCI were to fund a defense, we would want a precedent setting opportunity for all our members. That means "fight to the finish" in most cases. Fight to the finish in criminal matters involves risk for the accused. If somewhere along the line, the DA were to agree to drop the CCW charges for some alternative that was palatable to her, then there would again be a divergence in what was best for her, vs. what WCI would want to pursue. We may want to fight to the finish (but risk losing) she may want to take an offer. For that reason combined with the reasons above, we usually don't get involved at this level, but everything is reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

This should not discourage nor endorse anyone else from personally choosing to help Krysta if they feel compelled to do so. As individuals, your decision to provide support financial or otherwise is up to you. For WCI as an organization we have a different set of criteria and considerations in how we utilize our resources.
 
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Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
So.... why are we harassing people that are putting caveats on donating their hard earned money?

I have used that logic for others in the past.

Personally, I am going to give because I know MKEGal and I want to. If others want to limit their assistance to a specific gun charge, let them be. WCI has basically said they aren't going to get involved unless there is a gun charge either.

Paul, I apologize if my post seemed "harrassing" to you. As my participation in this forum is at an end, you have my word it will never happen again....

Outdoorsman1
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Paul, I apologize if my post seemed "harrassing" to you. As my participation in this forum is at an end, you have my word it will never happen again....

Outdoorsman1

Why are you leaving? I wasn't specifically talking about anyone in particular, and it wasn't that I felt harassed, I was just pointing out that rodbender said he wasn't going to donate because MKEGal wasn't specifically (as of yet) charged with a gun crime. Several people, in my opinion, started harassing him that it was a gun related crime.

I apologize if that causes you to want to leave the forum, I was just trying to say that various people have different criteria for donation and we should respect that.
 

DangerClose

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
570
Location
The mean streets of WI
Just registered and first post, read about this on the PAFOA. To be honest, she's getting charged with contempt of cop because they couldn't get a gun charge to stick. It's a backdoor to restrict her firearm rights and hassle her for carrying and not submitting to the whims of the police.

Should do a citizen's arrest on various members of the Milwaukee Police force for "contempt of citizen."
 

Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
Why are you leaving? I wasn't specifically talking about anyone in particular, and it wasn't that I felt harassed, I was just pointing out that rodbender said he wasn't going to donate because MKEGal wasn't specifically (as of yet) charged with a gun crime. Several people, in my opinion, started harassing him that it was a gun related crime.

I apologize if that causes you to want to leave the forum, I was just trying to say that various people have different criteria for donation and we should respect that.

Paul, read my post agian. I realize that you did not feel harrassed, but felt it was harrassing another poster....

And rest assured, you are not the reason I have decided to take a break from this forum.

Outdoorsman1

Edited to add.... This will be my final word on the matter....
 
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Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Your definition is incorrect -
Business parking lots are private property held out to the public who wish to patronize that business.
...
With the permission of the business owner, it is exactly like me sitting in my driveway to fix my car, or to hook up to the local wi-fi.

The law does not hold that a parking lot on private property is a public accommodation.

It is not the same as your own driveway. I never said that it was a premises where the public may do with as they see fit.
When a premises is held out to the public for use of their motor vehicles enforcement of some Statutes is different than in your driveway. You can drink alcohol in your home until you have a .40 BAC, get in your car and move your car in your driveway so long as you do not enter the public right-of-way. If you drink in a tavern until you achieve .08 and then get into your car, you may be charged with Operating with a PAC while still in the parking lot of the tavern.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
346.61  Applicability of sections relating to reckless and drunken driving.In addition to highways it applies to all "all premises held out to the public for use of their motor vehicles" and explicitly excludes only "private parking areas at farms or single-family residences"

Neither of those was alleged in this specific.....

Do you have statute that states relevance for this topic?
 

Brass Magnet

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,818
Location
Right Behind You!, Wisconsin, USA
346.61  Applicability of sections relating to reckless and drunken driving.
In addition to highways it applies to all "all premises held out to the public for use of their motor vehicles" and explicitly excludes only "private parking areas at farms or single-family residences"

Wow, we really are living in a police state!

346.61  Applicability of sections relating to reckless and drunken driving. In addition to being applicable upon highways, ss. 346.62 to 346.64 are applicable upon all premises held out to the public for use of their motor vehicles, all premises provided by employers to employees for the use of their motor vehicles and all premises provided to tenants of rental housing in buildings of 4 or more units for the use of their motor vehicles, whether such premises are publicly or privately owned and whether or not a fee is charged for the use thereof. Sections 346.62 to 346.64 do not apply to private parking areas at farms or single-family residences. 346.61 History History: 1995 a. 127.
346.61 Annotation A privately owned parking lot was not included under this section. City of Kenosha v. Phillips, 142 Wis. 2d 549, 419 N.W.2d 236 (1988).

346.61 Annotation A parking lot for patrons of a business is held out for the use of the public under this section. City of LaCrosse v. Richling, 178 Wis. 2d 856, 505 N.W.2d 448 (Ct. App. 1993).

I wonder if the privately owned lot in green above was a charge per use deal or what...

In any case, I'm not seeing how it's relevant to the topic at hand.
 
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oak1971

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
1,937
Location
Wisconsin, USA
346.61  Applicability of sections relating to reckless and drunken driving.
In addition to highways it applies to all "all premises held out to the public for use of their motor vehicles" and explicitly excludes only "private parking areas at farms or single-family residences"

She was not drunk. Nor driving.
 

Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
Oh, there is money to be sent. I could pay her entire lagal bill and not miss it. I will send the usual amount that is more than most and perhaps less than some. But it needs to be gun related (guilt or innocence matters not) for me to send it, otherwise anyone with a traffic ticket that they wanted to fight and could not afford an attorney for could get donations. The line is drawn at true gun related charges only.

Ok. it is official gun related charge...

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?97114-It-s-official-MKEGal-charged-with-941.23

http://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;jsessionid=AF2D8C716898A7182110EA2C78BE1F66.render6?caseNo=2011CM005566&countyNo=40&cacheId=F2CE9FE86F0F7D3DDDD3D8F316A5D402&recordCount=3&offset=1&mode=details&submit=View+Case+Details

As I have already donated all I can afford (not much), maybe you could be so kind as to help in any way you could afford...

Thanks in advance for your generosity......

Outdoorsman1
 
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scm54449

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
220
Location
Marshfield, WI
Oh, there is money to be sent. I could pay her entire lagal bill and not miss it. I will send the usual amount that is more than most and perhaps less than some. But it needs to be gun related (guilt or innocence matters not) for me to send it, otherwise anyone with a traffic ticket that they wanted to fight and could not afford an attorney for could get donations. The line is drawn at true gun related charges only.

Hello RodBender. I just sent you a PM with a link to the official announcement. MKEgal has been charged with concealed carry without a license while she was open carrying behind the wheel of her vehicle.
 

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
Can somebody please post a link to the donation site? I didn't need to see the court documents. All I needed was somebody to tell me that she was charged with a real gun related crime and what the charge is. I will send the usual amount.

Preferably Paypal.
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Can somebody please post a link to the donation site? I didn't need to see the court documents. All I needed was somebody to tell me that she was charged with a real gun related crime and what the charge is. I will send the usual amount.

Preferably Paypal.

Thanks to all that have given and to those that will soon do so.

Direct link to PayPal for donation to offset MKEgal's legal fees and expenses.

 

WCrawford

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
592
Location
Nashville, Tennessee, United States
Can somebody please post a link to the donation site? I didn't need to see the court documents. All I needed was somebody to tell me that she was charged with a real gun related crime and what the charge is. I will send the usual amount.<br />
<br />
Preferably Paypal.

Thanks to all that have given and to those that will soon do so.

Direct link to PayPal for donation to offset MKEgal's legal fees and expenses.

Could you put the link in a thread of its own and sticky it?

Sent from my M865 using Tapatalk
 
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