Do you think open carrying makes you more or less of a target?

[MAC702]

I don't think anyone is dismissing the possibility. But it is quite often that someone comes here and spouts it as statistically significant and to tell us it is the reason people should not OC.

 

[ADobbs1989]

I don't think anyone is dismissing the possibility. But it is quite often that someone comes here and spouts it as statistically significant and to tell us it is the reason people should not OC.

Seems like a lot of people do try to claim that it's impossible, but I'm definitely not trying to discredit OC. I OC myself and I think there are many more pro's than con's for OC, regardless of what could happen.

 

[eye95]

If it COULD happen then it should be noted. Also note that I also stated that OC can deter most criminals. I think the chances of deterrence are much higher than the chances of making you a target. But there are instances when you COULD be considered a target or threat. You can never know what a criminal is willing to do, or what is going through their mind. I don't mind playing the odds because I feel that I have the chance to deter more crime than to bring on myself...but I'm not stupid. This is why OC'ers should keep high situational awareness....if OC deterred all crime and invited NONE then awareness wouldn't be needed. Why be worried about someone grabbing your gun from behind when you try to dismiss the possibility of being targeted during a crime? Sounds like that would be considered the definition of being targeted....

You COULD get hit by a meteor. Wear your helmet.

COULD don't mean squat.

You are presenting this outlandishly unlikely possibility as a reason to consider not OCing. Such consideration would be moronic beyond belief.

Seems like a lot of people do try to claim that it's impossible, but I'm definitely not trying to discredit OC. I OC myself and I think there are many more pro's than con's for OC, regardless of what could happen.

Who said it was impossible? It is so unlikely as to be not worth considering any more than one would worry about being hit by a meteor.

 

[ADobbs1989]

You COULD get hit by a meteor. Wear your helmet.

COULD don't mean squat.

You are presenting this outlandishly unlikely possibility as a reason to consider not OCing. Such consideration would be moronic beyond belief.



Who said it was impossible? It is so unlikely as to be not worth considering any more than one would worry about being hit by a meteor.

I've stated more than once that I am PRO-OC, I'm not presenting anything as a reason to not consider OC'ing. The title of the topic is "Do you think open carrying makes you more or less of a target?" and I responded with how it, in certain situations, could make you more of a target, but in general it would deter most criminals. It's "outlandishly unlikely" that you will win the lottery, however it is possible. Should no one play because more than likely they won't win? What happens when you are faced with a situation where you are being targeted? It's not "outlandishly unlikely" that OC'ers can be targeted or situational awareness wouldn't be so highly encouraged, and holster companies wouldn't try their best to make products that are not only tough, but difficult to remove and also highly retentive in the case that someone tries to take your gun. What is "moronic" is to dismiss possible situations with the theory that every criminal is going to be deterred by your firearm. Most will be...but maybe not all. What needs to be reinforced is maintaining high situational awareness and the ability to respond effectively regardless of what situation may arise, not ignoring possible situations because you don't "think" they will happen.

 

[compmanio365]

If you are so situationally unaware that having someone sneak up on you and steal your gun is a real possibility, or that someone will get the jump on you and gun you down before you notice they're up to no good, maybe you should not just rethink OC but carrying a gun altogether.....and life in general. Situational awareness isn't something that was invented with the gun....

Life is a numbers game. Do you increase your risk of being targeted for crime because you OC? I think you are talking about a net negative result on that dice roll. The infinitesimally small chance of being targeted first by a robber or other BG are vastly outweighed by those who would rather just find an unarmed person down the road to tangle with, where they undoubtedly have the upper hand. I feel pretty good when I OC that the odds are with me.....be aware, but don't be paranoid is what I'd tell anybody who is nervous about OCing.

 

[ADobbs1989]

If you are so situationally unaware that having someone sneak up on you and steal your gun is a real possibility, or that someone will get the jump on you and gun you down before you notice they're up to no good, maybe you should not just rethink OC but carrying a gun altogether.....and life in general. Situational awareness isn't something that was invented with the gun....

Life is a numbers game. Do you increase your risk of being targeted for crime because you OC? I think you are talking about a net negative result on that dice roll. The infinitesimally small chance of being targeted first by a robber or other BG are vastly outweighed by those who would rather just find an unarmed person down the road to tangle with, where they undoubtedly have the upper hand. I feel pretty good when I OC that the odds are with me.....be aware, but don't be paranoid is what I'd tell anybody who is nervous about OCing.

You would be amazed at how much situational awareness we have lost due to increased electronics, daily routines, etc. Sure maybe these people shouldn't carry a firearm...but that doesn't mean they don't. Awareness isn't a requirement...at least not in Alabama to receive a CCP, and for that matter anyone (other than felons, drunks, etc) can open carry a handgun without any kind of permit while afoot. Once again you can say that YOU don't have anything to worry about...but there are many people who could easily be surprised and disarmed, especially if talking on a cell phone which is...highly common these days. I still say being prepared is the best defense, and ignoring possible scenarios isn't being very prepared.

 

[Grapeshot]

Seems like a lot of people do try to claim that it's impossible, but I'm definitely not trying to discredit OC. I OC myself and I think there are many more pro's than con's for OC, regardless of what could happen.

I have [highlight]never[/highlight] said nor heard anyone say that it was impossible. It is not nice to put words in someone's mouth - a lot of people, really? What I have said repeatedly is that if and when it does occur the resultant numerical value (percentage) will look something like .000001%

BTW - I am the originator of the challenge: Show me one (1) incident in modern times anywhere in the U.S.A. with verifiable cites where an OCer has been preemptively taken out as a result of direct criminal action to eliminate the primary perceived threat. LEO, military, and security officers are excluded. Might it happen one day? Probably, but when it does the resultant ratio of daily OC events to the one that meets the standard will likely resemble .000001% Those are odds I can accept.

Many have searched over the last 12-15 years - all came back empty handed or with claims that had already been debunked. Care to become the next Don Quixote? Have at it, but I'm not waiting up for you.

Frankly, I think (that's an opinion) your risk is greater of being shot when you look like any other garden variety victim waiting for a place to happen - meaning while CCing. But what do I know? I know that every problem that I ever had with an aggressive individual, intent on causing me harm was when my gun wasn't visible (mostly in a vehicle, but twice on foot) and that I have never been robbed, raped or assaulted while OCing.................at least not yet.

 

[robert1970]

Tough, their problem not mine.

I totally agree with you.I have rge right to open carry,and I will do so.

 

[eye95]

I have [highlight]never[/highlight] said nor heard anyone say that it was impossible...

He is using a strawman to make his argument look stronger next to a weaker one--a weaker one of his own invention, not one he has actually encountered.

Resorting to strawmen is a sure sign of a failed argument.

 

[Grapeshot]

He is using a strawman to make his argument look stronger next to a weaker one--a weaker one of his own invention, not one he has actually encountered.

Resorting to strawmen is a sure sign of a failed argument.

Oh, I know and it is patently obvious watsup, but I needed the practice. :lol:

 

[eye95]

Oh, I know and it is patently obvious watsup, but I needed the practice. :lol:

I know you know. Your turn.

I actually wrote that for someone else to read. :uhoh:

 

[Grapeshot]

I know you know. Your turn.

I actually wrote that for someone else to read. :uhoh:

Aye eye. I know that you know that I know you wrote it for someone else when I read it, but you quoted me so I quoted thee.

Oh see - practice makes par. Fact.

 

[snubbyfan]

Interesting point, in cc circles it's advised to not be a victim, by not looking like a victim. Yet don't look too prepared or dangerous or you'll be the first to get shot.
I've been concealed carrying for years and only recently became interested in open carry. You guys raise some interesting points and food for thought.
I did accidently open carry while getting gas in VA. It was hot out so I had removed my cover garment for the roadtrip, wearing just a tank top and a snubby in a owb holster on my belt. I stopped to get gas and use the restroom. After I was back on the road I realized I was walking around with my gun hanging out. The world didn't end, I didn't get shot by a bad guy and nobody hassled me. Seem to make no difference at all. Hmmm...

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped--
I did accidently open carry while getting gas in VA. It was hot out so I had removed my cover garment for the roadtrip, wearing just a tank top and a snubby in a owb holster on my belt. I stopped to get gas and use the restroom. After I was back on the road I realized I was walking around with my gun hanging out. The world didn't end, I didn't get shot by a bad guy and nobody hassled me. Seem to make no difference at all. Hmmm...

Welcome to the forum!

Spend as much time as you can perusing OCDO, particular your home state and maybe Virginia too if you travel here frequently. Please do read our Forum Rules - nothing terribly unusual there, but will help you avoid common pitfalls.

Yes, OC is not only legal here, but it works! OC advertises that you will NOT be a willing victim + educates others as to the legal condition. Then too, it is sooo liberating.

Did you notice that BGs hide their guns (conceal them) until they elect to threaten or harm someone and almost never (ever?) carry in a holster? hmmmm.

BTW - I don't care whether you OC, CC, or noC - that is your personal decision. Just do not willing allow anything that will negatively impact my/our ability to make the same personal choice.

 

[OC for ME]

<snip> The world didn't end, I didn't get shot by a bad guy and nobody hassled me. Seem to make no difference at all. Hmmm...

It IS possible, however remotely possible, that you were extremely lucky that time.....

And, do not try to determine what exactly that thing in the gorilla's mouth is. I contend that it is a cheap cigar cleverly disguised as a carrot.

Welcome to OCDO.

 

[ADobbs1989]

By the same token, when someone says "it is possible," they should also include the relative odds.

You shouldn't say "it is possible to get shot in a bank robbery" and "it is possible to win the lottery with a ticket you found in the gutter" with the same tone that you say "it is possible to draw a king in a deck of cards."

The fact is that the mythical status of the "get shot first" and "advertised target" arguments are debunked without disputing the physical possibility of infinite futures in infinite universes.

This is saying that it's technically impossible. If you introduce an argument that requires "infinite futures and universes" to happen, you have successfully stated that it's impossible. Until evidence arises that there are in fact infinite universes you are saying it cannot happen.

When you consider the reality of what has actually happened, you realize that that chance is less than one in a million. It just doesn't happen. However, we know for a fact that the reverse happens, that a criminal could change his target to avoid committing a crime in the vicinity of an OCer.

First you say it's 1 in a million, then you say it doesn't happen. Maybe not saying it's impossible, but it's so improbable that it's of no use.

Simply put, that is an urban myth, an ol' wives tale, empty argument. Been debunked sooo many times that I am loath to do it again - think I'll let someone else have a turn.

Sounds to me like you dismiss this possibility so fiercely that you are stating it's impossible. You use words that try to make what I say as completely false or "impossible". When in actuality it's a possible situation.

There are three different quotes, on only one page of this discussion that dismisses the possibility of this situation occurring. Maybe you should remember the things you say, and understand the context of what your saying. Maybe you didn't mean the things you said the way you said them, but my premise that most of you dismiss the possibility is not wrong.

Since I can't post an opinion, a correct opinion at that, without being basically called untruthful, I will not be posting on this thread again. You have shown your bigotry, and thick headed nature when it comes to ideas that don't coincide with your own.

 

[OC for ME]

This is saying that it's technically impossible. If you introduce an argument that requires "infinite futures and universes" to happen, you have successfully stated that it's impossible. Until evidence arises that there are in fact infinite universes you are saying it cannot happen.

First you say it's 1 in a million, then you say it doesn't happen. Maybe not saying it's impossible, but it's so improbable that it's of no use.

Sounds to me like you dismiss this possibility so fiercely that you are stating it's impossible. You use words that try to make what I say as completely false or "impossible". When in actuality it's a possible situation.

There are three different quotes, on only one page of this discussion that dismisses the possibility of this situation occurring. Maybe you should remember the things you say, and understand the context of what your saying. Maybe you didn't mean the things you said the way you said them, but my premise that most of you dismiss the possibility is not wrong.

Since I can't post an opinion, a correct opinion at that, without being basically called untruthful, I will not be posting on this thread again. You have shown your bigotry, and thick headed nature when it comes to ideas that don't coincide with your own.

You're not wrong, you are .000001% correct. Grape just stated it bass ackwards.

 

[Grapeshot]

--snip-- You have shown your bigotry, and thick headed nature when it comes to ideas that don't coincide with your own.

Personal Insults are not allowed here.

(9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE: Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

The snipped portion contained the same rhetoric repeated ad nasium and ignored the consistent correction by most (all?) other posters that was not the case. What was consistently said was that there was an extremely (absurdly?) low probability. That was not (insert insult here), but rather calm, rational, intelligent, responsible way to respond to your position.

 

[Grapeshot]

--snip-- Grape just stated it bass ackwards.

Isn't that the same difference............or a different sameness?

 

[MSG Laigaie]

Interesting point, in cc circles it's advised to not be a victim, by not looking like a victim........
You guys raise some interesting points and food for thought..........
The world didn't end,.........
I didn't get shot by a bad guy..............
and nobody hassled me...............
Seem to make no difference at all. Hmmm...

Snubbyfan, Welcome, to a newly Enlightened Man.