Here is free training that meets the letter of the proposed law

[IcrewUH60]

MKEgal for Attorney General :banana:

 

[MKEgal]

MKEgal for Attorney General :banana:

LOL
Just because I can read & understand plain English, & the [I can't say what I really want to 'cause it'll get John mad at me & besides a lady doesn't use terms like that in public] over at the DOJ can't...
and because I tend to lean toward less gov't infringement on the rights of citizens...

Hmmm, wonder if I could write myself an exemption for all the "no (legal) guns" gov't buildings?
Better, point out (persistently, in writing) to the people in charge of making the signage decisions for those gov't buildings, where the law says that places which don't post are immune from liability for that (as well as whatever the statutes are about creating a hazardous environment).
And make sure my building isn't posted.


But the reason I came back to post one more thing over here was this:
One more good reason to accept online 'training'.
Esp. at first, the wait to get into an in-person class can be long.
If someone can do the MD class the night she gets threatened by her ex, mail it the next day on her way to a gun store to buy a pistol, pick it up in 2 days*, open carry most places, & get a permit within 3 weeks, that's miles better than having to wait a month for the training, THEN mail it in & wait.

*This is one thing we need to attack next.
The reason for the waiting period was to do a background check.
That's now done practically instantly.

 

[CCW412]

your interpretation does not matter........

The only interpretation that counts IS THE DOJ'S!!

The DOJ could say the the Maryland on-line course does not qualify because it was developed and offered by the "Maryland Police Training Commission", and by definition they are not a "Law Enforcement agency" they are only the Training commission for the police dept.

Again it is all open to their interpretation and not yours!!

 

[MKEgal]

Hmmm... signs up this month, makes 3 argumentative posts, & from the name is focussed on cc.

Besides, have a look at WI 2011 Act 21http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/acts/11Act21.pdf:
Esp. the part that starts on pg. 2, 227.10 (2m) about how no agency can set standards for a license that aren't in the law, unless they get the Governor's approval.

So yes, the DOJ could get the Governor to agree that the MD Police class isn't really what's meant by the clear language of the law.
Or the DOJ has to contact MD & ask if their State Police training commission is part of the State Police, then if their State Police is a LEA.

 

[CCW412]

I am 100% for CCW but I don't like when people try to and pass on their own definitions of the law when they do not look at all of the definitions first!!!

c. A firearms safety or training course that is available to the public and is offered by a law enforcement agency

343.237(1)(ar)
(ar) "Law enforcement agency of another state" means a governmental unit of one or more persons employed by a state other than this state or by a political subdivision of a state other than this state for the purpose of preventing and detecting crime and enforcing laws or ordinances of that state or a political subdivision of that state, employees of which unit are authorized to make arrests for crimes while acting within the scope of their authority.

175.46(1)(f) (f) "Wisconsin law enforcement agency" means a governmental unit of one or more persons employed by this state or a political subdivision of this state for the purpose of preventing and detecting crime and enforcing state laws or local ordinances, employees of which unit are authorized to make arrests for crimes while acting within the scope of their authority.

The online 'VIDEO" was developed and offered by the "Maryland Police Training Commission", and by definition they are not a "Law Enforcement agency"

 

[IcrewUH60]

I am 100% for CCW but I don't like when people try to and pass on their own definitions of the law when they do not look at all of the definitions first!!!

c. A firearms safety or training course that is available to the public and is offered by a law enforcement agency

343.237(1)(ar)
(ar) "Law enforcement agency of another state" means a governmental unit of one or more persons employed by a state other than this state or by a political subdivision of a state other than this state for the purpose of preventing and detecting crime and enforcing laws or ordinances of that state or a political subdivision of that state, employees of which unit are authorized to make arrests for crimes while acting within the scope of their authority.

175.46(1)(f) (f) "Wisconsin law enforcement agency" means a governmental unit of one or more persons employed by this state or a political subdivision of this state for the purpose of preventing and detecting crime and enforcing state laws or local ordinances, employees of which unit are authorized to make arrests for crimes while acting within the scope of their authority.

The online 'VIDEO" was developed and offered by the "Maryland Police Training Commission", and by definition they are not a "Law Enforcement agency"

FWIW, the bottom of the printed certificate states:
"(Name) (signature) Born on: (date) has completed a certified firearms safety training course online, on (date) which meets the requirements of Public Safety Article [Section] 3 206(d) of the Annotated Code of Maryland"

and because it is "offered" by the Maryland Police and Correctional Training Commissions (http://www.dpscs.state.md.us/agencies/mpctc.shtml) which is a division of the Maryland Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services (DPSCS) (http://www.dpscs.state.md.us/aboutdpscs/) i don't see any reason why it WOULDN'T qualify to the exact letter of the law.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

Willing to wait

As ceritfied instructor who can easly meet any DOJ requirerment. I am wating to see what DOJ decides what the traning standard is. I will not charge somebody for something they can get for free unless they want to after explaining that to them. If they want me to I'll galdly teach them and I'll charge them for it.

Speculate all you want untill DOJ rules come out no one will know for sure.

I think a free on line course would be great consitutional carry the best.

There are plenty of people to train some willl seek more training then others.

I am sitting back wating and after the standards are set up I'll offter a course that meets them.

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

As ceritfied instructor who can easly meet any DOJ requirerment. I am wating to see what DOJ decides what the traning standard is. I will not charge somebody for something they can get for free unless they want to after explaining that to them. If they want me to I'll galdly teach them and I'll charge them for it.

Speculate all you want untill DOJ rules come out no one will know for sure.

I think a free on line course would be great consitutional carry the best.

There are plenty of people to train some willl seek more training then others.

I am sitting back wating and after the standards are set up I'll offter a course that meets them.

That sounds like a reasoned approach.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

I see lots of instuctors jumping the gun to get in on the early money. I am wondering will they refund it if the course they offer isn't reconized by DOJ

 

[CCW412]

FWIW, the bottom of the printed certificate states:
"(Name) (signature) Born on: (date) has completed a certified firearms safety training course online, on (date) which meets the requirements of Public Safety Article [Section] 3 206(d) of the Annotated Code of Maryland"

and because it is "offered" by the Maryland Police and Correctional Training Commissions (http://www.dpscs.state.md.us/agencies/mpctc.shtml) which is a division of the Maryland Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services (DPSCS) (http://www.dpscs.state.md.us/aboutdpscs/) i don't see any reason why it WOULDN'T qualify to the exact letter of the law.

Because according to WI STATE STATUES a Law enforcement agency is as follows;

343.237(1)(ar)
"Law enforcement agency of another state" means a governmental unit of one or more persons employed by a state other than this state or by a political subdivision of a state other than this state for the purpose of preventing and detecting crime and enforcing laws or ordinances of that state or a political subdivision of that state, employees of which unit are authorized to make arrests for crimes while acting within the scope of their authority.

175.46(1)(f)
"Wisconsin law enforcement agency" means a governmental unit of one or more persons employed by this state or a political subdivision of this state for the purpose of preventing and detecting crime and enforcing state laws or local ordinances, employees of which unit are authorized to make arrests for crimes while acting within the scope of their authority.


Maryland Police and Correctional Training Commissions and Maryland Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services are NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES!

On either of their web sites try to find a link or a list of agencies and tell me where you see MARYLAND STATE POLICE! http://www.mdsp.org/

HERE IS A LIST OF THE DPSCS Agencies
Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, Division of Capital Construction and Facilities Maintenance,Division of Correction,Division of Parole and Probation,Division of Pretrial Detention and Services,Emergency Number Systems Board,handgun Permit Review Board,Human Resources Services Division,Information Technology and Communications Division,Inmate Grievance Office,Internal Investigative Unit,Maryland Commission on Correctional Standards, Maryland Parole Commission, Maryland Police and Correctional Training Commissions, Office of Planning, Policy, Regulations and Statistics,Office of Property Management Services, Office of the Inspector General,Office of the Secretary,Office of Treatment Services,Patuxent Institution,Procurement Services Unit,Sundry Claims Board

Here is what the Maryland Police and Correctional Training Commissions does:
The mission of the Police and Correctional Training Commissions (PCTC) is to ensure the quality of law enforcement and correctional services through the establishment and enforcement of standards and the facilitation and delivery of training, education and prevention programs. Its value derives from providing our customers with quality service, enhanced partnerships, problem-solving strategies and the support necessary for the prevention of crime and reduction of fear of crime. The Commissions foster and maintain ethics and integrity, encourage continuous learning, and treat everyone with dignity and respect. To this end, the PCTC is now housed in the new comprehensive Public Safety Education and Training Center. Other agency responsibilities include administration of the Maryland Community Crime Prevention Institute and the Executive Development Institute.

THEY DO NOT MAKE ARREST and no where do I see.... purpose of preventing and detecting crime and enforcing laws or ordinances of that state or a political subdivision of that state, employees of which unit are authorized to make arrests for crimes while acting within the scope of their authority.

i don't see any reason why it WOULDN'T qualify to the exact letter of the law

Because no where do they fit in the exact letter of the law!!

AGAIN IT IS NOT UP TO ME, YOU OR ANYONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM, I FALLS ON THE DOJ TO INTERPRET THE LAW!!

 

[CCW412]

Maryland State Police

The Mission of the Maryland State Police is to protect the citizens of the State of Maryland from foreign and domestic security threats, to fight crime, and to promote roadway safety by upholding the laws of the State of Maryland. This will be accomplished through aggressive patrol, investigation, intelligence gathering and interdiction efforts; and by providing leadership and assistance to state and local agencies.

HMMMMM......Sounds like they fit in the definition as per WI STATE STATUES to bad they have nothing to do with the ON-LINE "TRAINING"

http://www.mdsp.org/

 

[mrjam2jab]

I see lots of instuctors jumping the gun to get in on the early money. I am wondering will they refund it if the course they offer isn't reconized by DOJ

As long as those instructors issue a certificate of completion with their NRA Instructor # on it...they will be fine.

e. A firearms safety or training course that is conducted by a firearms instructor who is certified by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors or who is certified by the department.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

mrjam2jab Yes that is correct they should recognize those courses. They should also recongise the consitution and we would not have jump through these hoops.
I find that when you give a goverment agency some power they like to maximize it rather then limit it.

We well see.

 

[IcrewUH60]

more free training..... online

[video=youtube_share;5RKTSwAVaoU]http://youtu.be/5RKTSwAVaoU[/video]

 

[melohn]

on line training will not satisfy wis ccw training requirement

Hello, According to state rep. Gary Bies office on line training can not be used to satisfy ccw training requirement.

 

[protias]

Hello, According to state rep. Gary Bies office on line training can not be used to satisfy ccw training requirement.

It is a good thing he doesn't decide on the rules because it does satisfy the law. The DOJ will have the final say. So if they say it doesn't satisfy the requirements, they'll still be wrong.

 

[Da Po-lock]

Hello, According to state rep. Gary Bies office on line training can not be used to satisfy ccw training requirement.

I guess taking the WI hunters safety course ONLINE and getting the certificate don't count either then huh ? Take the IHEA online course then attend a DNR range day (which the law doesn't require live firing) and you get your certificate.

If 1 online course doesn't meet the requirement then NONE should, but thats not the way it is.

 

[davegran]

I guess taking the WI hunters safety course ONLINE and getting the certificate don't count either then huh ? Take the IHEA online course then attend a DNR range day (which the law doesn't require live firing) and you get your certificate.

If 1 online course doesn't meet the requirement then NONE should, but thats not the way it is.

Bullseye!

​

 

[TheManInBlack]

Hello, According to state rep. Gary Bies office on line training can not be used to satisfy ccw training requirement.

What about this then??

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/store/index_cart.php?crn=269&rn=929&action=show_detail

 

[TheManInBlack]

So, I finished the course... But do I need to mail anything to Maryland?