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Misinformed NRA instructors in Ct.

Rich B

Rich B

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Received this today:

Bruce Gallup said:
It would seem that my stance on concealed carry isn't too far fetched after all.


http://www.ctnewsjunkie.com/ctnj.ph...owners_to_carry_weapons_openly..._technically
Click to expand...

My reply:
Rich B said:
I don't think it is unfair for me to expect you or Mr Lawlor to read the actual statute being cited, but it appears neither of you is willing to.

Here is the statute for breach of peace which we would have to assume he is making reference to:

From: http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/pub/chap952.htm#Sec53a-181.htm
Sec. 53a-181. Breach of the peace in the second degree: Class B misdemeanor. (a) A person is guilty of breach of the peace in the second degree when, with intent to cause inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, such person: (1) Engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior in a public place; or (2) assaults or strikes another; or (3) threatens to commit any crime against another person or such other person's property; or (4) publicly exhibits, distributes, posts up or advertises any offensive, indecent or abusive matter concerning any person; or (5) in a public place, uses abusive or obscene language or makes an obscene gesture; or (6) creates a public and hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which such person is not licensed or privileged to do. For purposes of this section, "public place" means any area that is used or held out for use by the public whether owned or operated by public or private interests.

When we break this down, we have (a) which says BoP occurs when you intend to create annoyance or alarm by one of the following:

Fighting or being violent or threatening. (Obviously does not apply)
Assaults or strikes another. (Same)
Threatens to commit any crime (Same)
Uses abusive or obscene language (Same)

And then there is the last clause which I would argue also does not apply, but even if it one argues that it does apply (a serious stretch), a CT pistol permit clearly 'licenses and privileges' someone in possession of the permit to open carry. Both clauses have to be proven, neither would hold up in court.

In the interest of another opinion, here is the state's opinion on the matter:

Conduct = Fighting, being violent or threatening

http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/part8/8.4-2.htm

Conduct = Assaults or strikes another person

http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/part8/8.4-3.htm

Conduct = Threatening

http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/part8/8.4-4.htm

Conduct = Uses abusive or obscene language

http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/part8/8.4-5.htm

Conduct = Creating a hazardous condition

http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/part8/8.4-7.htm


I would have never thought I would see the day that I saw a NRA instructor citing and agreeing with Lawlor. If that is something you are proud of, I have no way to help you. It is your choice to be on the side which is wrong.

Mr. Lawlor has a politically motivated reason to deceive the public. What is your excuse?

--
Rich Burgess
Ph: 203.208.9577
Click to expand...
 
Rich B

Rich B

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Bruce Gallup's ultimate position

"I am not going to learn or think, I am just going to keep pounding my fists on the table!"

Bruce Gallup said:
I only agree in the respect that it's generally accepted that if you carry your weapon openly you are at risk of being arrested. Whether justified or not, that is what can potentially happen. It's my responsibility as an instructor to make sure my students are aware of ALL aspects of their responsibility carrying a firearm. And yes. I am proud that I show respect for all persons by considering how my actions may effect them. We have no reason for further communication. Have a great day sir.
Click to expand...

I guess 'all aspects' don't include both options of how they may choose to carry: Concealed or Openly.
 
Last edited:
W

wrightme

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Mr. Gallup appears to not want business.


As for "Misinformed NRA instructors," as has been pointed out frequently, the NRA does not provide curriculum OR training to its instructors with respect to state laws; in ANY state. It isn't an "NRA thing" at all in this specific. In Nevada for instance, while NRA certified instructors are allowed to teach CCW classes (if approved by a Sheriff of the county of residence), the curriculum is from the state, and has nothing to do with the NRA at all.

ANY instructor (NRA or otherwise) who knowingly presents false "law" data is not doing their job, and is doing a disservice to their students. Once again, that is the failure of the instructor, and is not a failure of any organization.
 
Last edited:
W

wrightme

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Rich B said:
"I am not going to learn or think, I am just going to keep pounding my fists on the table!"



I guess 'all aspects' don't include both options of how they may choose to carry: Concealed or Openly.
Click to expand...

Here is the quote from his FAQ:

If I decide to carry a gun on my person for self-defense, am I required to conceal the gun?

There is no law in Connecticut mandating the gun be carried concealed, the permit issued is a Permit to Carry, not a concealed carry permit. HOWEVER, there have been a number of instances where a permit holder has opted for open carry which is legal. As a result complaints were brought against them by third party individuals resulting in arrest. Those arrests were deemed false and charges were subsequently dropped. Concealed carry should be considered as an option.
Click to expand...
Is there ANY portion of that quote which is not accurate?
 
Rich B

Rich B

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wrightme said:
Here is the quote from his FAQ:

Is there ANY portion of that quote which is not accurate?
Click to expand...

It is not what the email thread quoted is about. This is the original site text:

If I decide to carry a gun on my person for self-defense, am I required to conceal the gun?

There is no law in Connecticut mandating the gun be carried concealed, HOWEVER, it is stated that if it is carried in plain view, and it causes complaint or alarm, your permit to carry can be jeopardized. For this reason it is recommended any firearms be carried concealed and out of plain view.
Click to expand...
 
Rich B

Rich B

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Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
wrightme said:
So, what specific portion do you feel is not accurate, or 'misinformed?'
Click to expand...

If I decide to carry a gun on my person for self-defense, am I required to conceal the gun?

There is no law in Connecticut mandating the gun be carried concealed, HOWEVER, it is stated that if it is carried in plain view, and it causes complaint or alarm, your permit to carry can be jeopardized. For this reason it is recommended any firearms be carried concealed and out of plain view.
Click to expand...

Emphasis mine. You can read the thread, I make all the arguments against this in this thread.
 
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