Misinformed NRA instructors in Ct.

[Rich B]

Actually, it does sound like an opinion that is valid in CT. That opinion would have no validity in NV, but in CT, it seems valid.

I disagree, our BFPE disagrees, most of the people here disagree, and the statutes disagree.

When you show me where it is 'stated' that firearms must be carried concealed, I will change my opinion.

 

[wrightme]

You can also get a pistol permit and never own or carry a firearm. What is your point?

That the course in question isn't a "permit class" with a curriculum other than the curriculum of the "Basic Pistol Safety" NRA course.

 

[wrightme]

I disagree, our BFPE disagrees, most of the people here disagree, and the statutes disagree.

When you show me where it is 'stated' that firearms must be carried concealed, I will change my opinion.

Well, that would be for the instructor in question to clarify. I do not know what he means by "stated."

 

[Rich B]

That the course in question isn't a "permit class" with a curriculum other than the curriculum of the "Basic Pistol Safety" NRA course.

I still don't see your point. No one here is advocating they teach anything outside of the Basic Pistol Safety course. But they are. And we are requesting they teach those points correctly.

If you would like to start a separate thread and effort to contact these instructors and tell them that they shouldn't be teaching carry and permit issues at all, that would be fine with me.

 

[Rich B]

Well, that would be for the instructor in question to clarify. I do not know what he means by "stated."

And that is why I emailed him and asked him to cite where it was 'stated'. He confirmed he could not.

He then went pretty far out of his way to illustrate the problem with his knowledge base.

 

[KIX]

That the course in question isn't a "permit class" with a curriculum other than the curriculum of the "Basic Pistol Safety" NRA course.

That is right. The laws state that this course satisfies the state requirements.

don't get me wrong, simple discussion is fine. I just wonder, if a site is wrong, how bad can the instruction be?

Jonathan

 

[SickPythons]

As an instructor myself, I am faced with questions about state law and personal opinion in every class and my ultimate goal is to have a bunch of responsible gun owners out there who are well informed. When I first got my permit, I realized how little I really knew about the rules of carrying here in CT and I still have more to learn. It would have been nice if I had gotten some real instruction by someone that was schooled in the subject.

I realize that it is not required by the NRA or the State to teach this stuff, but the students, who will most likely buy a gun, deserve to know.
Opinion and law both have a place in this class.

 

[Hef]

It is what is required to obtain a permit to carry in our state.

And the class is given for that purpose.

 

[wrightme]

And the class is given for that purpose.

In this case though, does the class need to be given in CT?

The statutory requirement is to present a certificate from the NRA Basic Pistol safety course. Instructors in other states give that, and would not be expected to be aware of CT laws.

 

[brk913]

In this case though, does the class need to be given in CT?

The statutory requirement is to present a certificate from the NRA Basic Pistol safety course. Instructors in other states give that, and would not be expected to be aware of CT laws.

Does not matter where you take the class as long as the minimum instructed is the NRA Basic Pistol Class, makes it easy for non residents to obtain the required "education".

 

[Hef]

Does not matter where you take the class as long as the minimum instructed is the NRA Basic Pistol Class, makes it easy for non residents to obtain the required "education".

You are correct. I obtained a CT non-resident Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers through the mail. My SC CWP class, which included the NRA Basic Pistol instruction, provided me with the proper documentation needed for CT.

 

[Hef]

In this case though, does the class need to be given in CT?

The statutory requirement is to present a certificate from the NRA Basic Pistol safety course. Instructors in other states give that, and would not be expected to be aware of CT laws.

Safe weapons handling is universal, but it is the responsibility of the permit holder to educate himself on the laws of any state in which he intends to carry a firearm.

 

[wrightme]

As the past few posts indicate, the course itself does NOT address CT law; especially if taken out of state. Is it good to know the law? Yes. Is it required to be taught in the course to get the permit? No.

As an instructor myself, I am faced with questions about state law and personal opinion in every class and my ultimate goal is to have a bunch of responsible gun owners out there who are well informed. When I first got my permit, I realized how little I really knew about the rules of carrying here in CT and I still have more to learn. It would have been nice if I had gotten some real instruction by someone that was schooled in the subject.

I realize that it is not required by the NRA or the State to teach this stuff, but the students, who will most likely buy a gun, deserve to know.
Opinion and law both have a place in this class.

Further, it is NOT the role of an instructor to teach it (law OR opinion) as part of an NRA curriculum. In fact, the NRA does not sanction such content in their courses.

 

[MKEgal]

I emailed him too, & was sent the same news article in reply.
Not a link to or quote from a law, just a news report.

the NRA does not provide curriculum OR training to its instructors with respect to state laws; in ANY state.

Yep.

According to the website of Mr. Gallup, the course being taught is the NRA Basic Pistol course.

Not if he's including a discussion of laws, or interjecting his opinions.
There's nothing like that in the curriculum.
Having such a discussion AFTER class is perfectly fine, as long as students understand that it's not part of the class & isn't NRA material. I intend to give my students a page with links to read or search WI laws themselves, as well as a few of the relevant statutes.

Is it good to know the law? Yes. Is it required to be taught in the course to get the permit? No.
Further, it is NOT the role of an instructor to teach it (law OR opinion) as part of an NRA curriculum. In fact, the NRA does not sanction such content in their courses.

The only courses that require a discussion of laws are the Personal Protection series, and that cannot be done by an NRA instructor unless that person is a lawyer or LEO or something similar.

Here's there web contact form: https://www.nrahq.org/contact.asp
I'd choose 'training' from the pulldown menu.
Let them decide if the content violates their standards.

 

[Rich B]

This thread is skating right off the tracks.

No one is advocating for NRA instructors to be teaching the law. The fact is, however, that many are at least trying to teach the law. And they are doing so improperly. That is the objection, and that is the point of the thread/effort.

The argument that they should/shouldn't be teaching law is not relevant to this thread and is a discussion for other people at another time (in another thread). It is a reasonable argument, because maybe people should be focusing on holding the instructors to only basic pistol safety and saying "get a lawyer's opinion" on the laws. But that is not for this discussion.

While NRA instructors in this state are informing people of the laws of this state, it is our duty to make sure they are doing so with information that is as correct as possible.

 

[Rich B]

Here's there web contact form: https://www.nrahq.org/contact.asp
I'd choose 'training' from the pulldown menu.
Let them decide if the content violates their standards.

That is a fair idea. That is something I was looking for. It seems to me if we had an instructor who is teaching incorrectly, there has to be a way for NRA to get feedback to revoke their certification.

 

[KIX]

I don't think they'd consider the open carry issue a gross infraction.

They still list CT as "may issue, reasonable" when it comes to permits.

Jonathan

 

[Rich B]

They still list CT as "may issue, reasonable" when it comes to permits.

Ignoring differences in the definition of 'reasonable', what is incorrect about that? We are 'may issue'.

 

[KIX]

Exactly that.... reasonable.

The fact that an issuing authority can:
Deny you of due process by prolonging the process and clogging up the hearing process
Make you pay through the nose for an attorney even though they have no justifiable reason to deny you
play loose and disingenuous with the facts when you are denied at the local level
local and DPS taking your permit when they know there is no legal reason to do so and making a citizen appear before the board to get it back.

That's a start......

But, on topic......

I think there could be a process to report instructors, but there must also be a mechanism in place where slander and defamation can't take place. Some of the highly profitable instructors hate guys like me that don't charge an arm and a leg and teach a proper course.

Jonathan

 

[wrightme]

This thread is skating right off the tracks.

No one is advocating for NRA instructors to be teaching the law. The fact is, however, that many are at least trying to teach the law. And they are doing so improperly. That is the objection, and that is the point of the thread/effort.

The argument that they should/shouldn't be teaching law is not relevant to this thread and is a discussion for other people at another time (in another thread). It is a reasonable argument, because maybe people should be focusing on holding the instructors to only basic pistol safety and saying "get a lawyer's opinion" on the laws. But that is not for this discussion.

While NRA instructors in this state are informing people of the laws of this state, it is our duty to make sure they are doing so with information that is as correct as possible.

Why? They aren't supposed to be doing such in a course. Whether what they present is true or false, it isn't part of the approved curriculum at all.