Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
If you haven't gotten a voice-recorder yet, get one this week.
Special thanks to a particular 2nd Amendment activist whohandled the technicalrequirements to make the audio accessible to the forum.
A complaint has been sent. I'll post it to another thread.
Click on the link to hear the audio recording, then follow alongon the transcript.
http://tinyurl.com/2n3j96
Traffic Stop 9-8-07
Date/Time: 9/8/07 2:54 PM
Location: Fairfax County, VA
Officer Buckholtz: How you doing? Got your license and registration on you, please?
Driver: Yeah.
Officer Buckholtz: Driver's license?
Driver: Um hmm.
Driver: Why did you pull me over, officer?
Officer Buckholtz: Because you have a brake light out on the left hand side, there.
Driver: OK.
Officer Buckholtz: Do you have a driver’s license?
Driver: Yeah, I’m getting it now.
Officer Buckholtz: Huh?
Driver: I’m getting it out now.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Stay in the car. I’ll be right with you. OK?
Driver: Yes, sir.
[next few lines about address redacted from audio]
Officer Buckholtz: Still live on _________?
Driver: I’m sorry?
Officer Buckholtz: You still live on _______?
Driver: Yeah. Its just back up there at ___________.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. [Officer Buckholtz takes information back to cruiser.]
[Move slider to 0:06:14 toskiplistening totraffic go bywhile officer is in patrol car.]
[At 0:05:30 into audio recording driver turns on radio. At 0:05:39 into audio recording, driver makes a verbal time stamp]
Driver: Its about 3 pm. 3:01 pm. Been here about three minutes.
[Move slider to 0:06:14. At this point Officer Buckholtz returns from the cruiser.]
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Do you have your weapon on you, sir?
Driver: Yes, sir. I do.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Why didn’t you tell me that initially?
Driver: Because there’s no requirement to notify in Virginia.
Officer Buckholtz: Correct. You are correct. But you know what? When I brought that on my computer, and I see that, and had you gotten out of the car, you would have been shot. Without a doubt.
Driver: That’s a little bit of a …
Officer Buckholtz: Without a doubt.
Driver: Am I getting a warning or a citation?
Officer Buckholtz: You are getting a warning, sir.
Driver: Well, thank you.
Officer Buckholtz: So that may be something you want to divulge when you, uh, when you get pulled over from now on. OK?
Driver: The, uh, that’s a rather strong circumstance for a citizen who’s passed a backround check in order to get that CHP.
Officer Buckholtz: I’m not, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not arguing with you about that. But what I’m saying is…
Driver: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You are.
Officer Buckholtz: If I know there is a gun in the car, there are different parameters that I deal with. OK?
Driver: Sir, um. [Looks at Warning ticket] Buckholtz?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir.
Driver: Oh, you and I have spoken before, I think.
Officer Buckholtz: I don’t know if we have or not.
Driver: Alright. The, um, you just criticized me for not notifying you. You’re…
Officer Buckholtz: Your did. You’re right. Its not required by law. I said, I made, I simply made a suggestion that it would probably be a good idea.
Driver: No, you didn’t simply make a suggestion, sir.
Officer Buckholtz: I certainly did.
Driver: You criticized me for it.
Officer Buckholtz: I didn’t criticize anything. I said that would probably be a good idea because had you gotten out of the car you probably would have been shot is what I said. And it’s a suggestion. That’s what I said. It’s a suggestion. If you don’t want to that’s completely your perogative. Its simply a suggestion.
Driver: Officer Buckholtz?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir.
Driver: You didn’t suggest it.
Officer Buckholtz: OK, well that’s how I [unintelligible] a suggestion
Driver: Your, your, your tone of voice indicated that you were clearly criticizing me for not notifying you.
Officer Buckholtz: It wasn’t a criticize. It was…well that wasn’t my intention, sir. It was merely a, um, suggestion that you, that would probably be a good idea for you to notify a law enforcement officer if there is a weapon in the vehicle.
Driver: I disagree, sir. I have…
Officer Buckholtz: That’s your perogative to disagree.
Driver: I have a CHP. I passed a backround check to get that. So why is a police officer worried about a citizen who’s passed a backround check?
Officer Buckholtz: Who is carrying a gun?
Driver: Yes, sir.
Officer Buckholtz: OK.
Driver: Why is a officer worried about…
Officer Buckholtz: Put yourself in my position.
Driver: …with a citizen who has…
Officer Buckholtz: Well, just put yourself in my position.
Driver: OK.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. You’re an officer back here…
Driver: Right.
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t know that, that I have a gun.
Driver: Well, wait a minute. Police…
[Both try to talk at same time.]
Officer Buckholtz: You wanted to play the role.
Driver: Alright.
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t, you don’t know that I have a gun. OK? You’re sitting there…
[Both try to talk at same time.]
Driver: You as a police officer…
Officer Buckholtz: …comes up and says he’s potentially got a gun. And you start stepping out of your car. What do I do?
Driver: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I can see your soft body armor.
Officer Buckholtz: Right.
Driver: You assume you are going to meet people who are armed.
Officer Buckholtz: Correct.
Driver: Alright. And do you…
Officer Buckholtz: I don’t expect to get shot at, though.
Driver: Do you, do your, do your protocols not require you to approach my car right where you’re standing.
Officer Buckholtz: Negative. I can approach you where my partner’s at over here.
Driver: Who’s behind the window and the line of fire where if I have a firearm and intend to…
Officer Buckholtz: Now you’re getting into tactics.
Driver: But that’s, that’s where your tactics are.
Officer Buckholtz: Well, what if you’re left handed?
Driver: Oh, yeah. By the time [motion with empty left hand out window, making a "pistol" with fingers to show difficulty for left-hander to take officer under fire] here…
Officer Buckholtz: You know. [Unintelligle—both talking]…find out already?
Driver: So, if I….
Officer Buckholtz: What if you have it in between the seats?
Driver: If I send a Freedom of Information Act request for your General Orders on how to perform traffic stops…
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t even have to. You can go down to the library and get it.
Driver: OK. And there will be nothing in there about you expecting and being ready for an armed encounter.
Officer Buckholtz: We’re always ready for an armed encounter.
Driver: Exactly.
Officer Buckholtz: Which is what I’m saying. Had you gotten out of that car. Now, knowing that you’re armed…
Driver: um hmm
Officer Buckholtz: …you probably would have been shot. That’s what I’m saying.
Driver: Well, thank you for announcing in advance that you would, uh, infringe on my 5[suP]th[/suP] Amendment rights. [deprived of life without due process of law]
Officer Buckholtz: And how is that?
Driver: You’re shooting at a citizen who is getting out of the car…
Officer Buckholtz: No, no, no. An armed subject.
Driver: …with no weapons in his hands. Aah, that's real good.
Officer Buckholtz: You were told to stay in your car.
Driver:: Yes. And you noticed that I observed that instruction very carefully, didn’t you?
Officer Buckholtz: Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m very, I’m very glad you did.
Driver: So, so, why the criticism?
Officer Buckholtz: It wasn’t a criticism? It was a suggestion, sir.
Driver: Well, that it wasn’t.
Officer Buckholtz: Well, you can perceive it any way you like. It was meant as a criticism. Or not, as uh, as a uh, you know…[I speak, and being closer to the recorder drown part of Buckholtz’s response]…meant as a criticism for it.
Driver: Officer Buckholtz. I think you, I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere with this conversation.
Officer Buckholtz: I d…, I agree. We probably won’t.
Driver: Am I free to go?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir. You have been the whole time.
Driver: Well, that’s not for sure true. You told me to sit right here. And wait.
Officer Buckholtz: After, well what did, what did I tell you after your li..., after I gave your license back. [unintelligible]…go.
Driver: You did tell me to go. Yes. Very good.
Officer Buckholtz: You’ve been sitting here for ten minutes on your own.
Driver: Ha. Ha. Yeah, right.
Officer Buckholtz: OK? I thank you, sir.
Driver: Bye, bye. [end of encounter][/i]
If you haven't gotten a voice-recorder yet, get one this week.
Special thanks to a particular 2nd Amendment activist whohandled the technicalrequirements to make the audio accessible to the forum.
A complaint has been sent. I'll post it to another thread.
Click on the link to hear the audio recording, then follow alongon the transcript.
http://tinyurl.com/2n3j96
Traffic Stop 9-8-07
Date/Time: 9/8/07 2:54 PM
Location: Fairfax County, VA
Officer Buckholtz: How you doing? Got your license and registration on you, please?
Driver: Yeah.
Officer Buckholtz: Driver's license?
Driver: Um hmm.
Driver: Why did you pull me over, officer?
Officer Buckholtz: Because you have a brake light out on the left hand side, there.
Driver: OK.
Officer Buckholtz: Do you have a driver’s license?
Driver: Yeah, I’m getting it now.
Officer Buckholtz: Huh?
Driver: I’m getting it out now.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Stay in the car. I’ll be right with you. OK?
Driver: Yes, sir.
[next few lines about address redacted from audio]
Officer Buckholtz: Still live on _________?
Driver: I’m sorry?
Officer Buckholtz: You still live on _______?
Driver: Yeah. Its just back up there at ___________.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. [Officer Buckholtz takes information back to cruiser.]
[Move slider to 0:06:14 toskiplistening totraffic go bywhile officer is in patrol car.]
[At 0:05:30 into audio recording driver turns on radio. At 0:05:39 into audio recording, driver makes a verbal time stamp]
Driver: Its about 3 pm. 3:01 pm. Been here about three minutes.
[Move slider to 0:06:14. At this point Officer Buckholtz returns from the cruiser.]
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Do you have your weapon on you, sir?
Driver: Yes, sir. I do.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Why didn’t you tell me that initially?
Driver: Because there’s no requirement to notify in Virginia.
Officer Buckholtz: Correct. You are correct. But you know what? When I brought that on my computer, and I see that, and had you gotten out of the car, you would have been shot. Without a doubt.
Driver: That’s a little bit of a …
Officer Buckholtz: Without a doubt.
Driver: Am I getting a warning or a citation?
Officer Buckholtz: You are getting a warning, sir.
Driver: Well, thank you.
Officer Buckholtz: So that may be something you want to divulge when you, uh, when you get pulled over from now on. OK?
Driver: The, uh, that’s a rather strong circumstance for a citizen who’s passed a backround check in order to get that CHP.
Officer Buckholtz: I’m not, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not arguing with you about that. But what I’m saying is…
Driver: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You are.
Officer Buckholtz: If I know there is a gun in the car, there are different parameters that I deal with. OK?
Driver: Sir, um. [Looks at Warning ticket] Buckholtz?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir.
Driver: Oh, you and I have spoken before, I think.
Officer Buckholtz: I don’t know if we have or not.
Driver: Alright. The, um, you just criticized me for not notifying you. You’re…
Officer Buckholtz: Your did. You’re right. Its not required by law. I said, I made, I simply made a suggestion that it would probably be a good idea.
Driver: No, you didn’t simply make a suggestion, sir.
Officer Buckholtz: I certainly did.
Driver: You criticized me for it.
Officer Buckholtz: I didn’t criticize anything. I said that would probably be a good idea because had you gotten out of the car you probably would have been shot is what I said. And it’s a suggestion. That’s what I said. It’s a suggestion. If you don’t want to that’s completely your perogative. Its simply a suggestion.
Driver: Officer Buckholtz?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir.
Driver: You didn’t suggest it.
Officer Buckholtz: OK, well that’s how I [unintelligible] a suggestion
Driver: Your, your, your tone of voice indicated that you were clearly criticizing me for not notifying you.
Officer Buckholtz: It wasn’t a criticize. It was…well that wasn’t my intention, sir. It was merely a, um, suggestion that you, that would probably be a good idea for you to notify a law enforcement officer if there is a weapon in the vehicle.
Driver: I disagree, sir. I have…
Officer Buckholtz: That’s your perogative to disagree.
Driver: I have a CHP. I passed a backround check to get that. So why is a police officer worried about a citizen who’s passed a backround check?
Officer Buckholtz: Who is carrying a gun?
Driver: Yes, sir.
Officer Buckholtz: OK.
Driver: Why is a officer worried about…
Officer Buckholtz: Put yourself in my position.
Driver: …with a citizen who has…
Officer Buckholtz: Well, just put yourself in my position.
Driver: OK.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. You’re an officer back here…
Driver: Right.
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t know that, that I have a gun.
Driver: Well, wait a minute. Police…
[Both try to talk at same time.]
Officer Buckholtz: You wanted to play the role.
Driver: Alright.
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t, you don’t know that I have a gun. OK? You’re sitting there…
[Both try to talk at same time.]
Driver: You as a police officer…
Officer Buckholtz: …comes up and says he’s potentially got a gun. And you start stepping out of your car. What do I do?
Driver: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I can see your soft body armor.
Officer Buckholtz: Right.
Driver: You assume you are going to meet people who are armed.
Officer Buckholtz: Correct.
Driver: Alright. And do you…
Officer Buckholtz: I don’t expect to get shot at, though.
Driver: Do you, do your, do your protocols not require you to approach my car right where you’re standing.
Officer Buckholtz: Negative. I can approach you where my partner’s at over here.
Driver: Who’s behind the window and the line of fire where if I have a firearm and intend to…
Officer Buckholtz: Now you’re getting into tactics.
Driver: But that’s, that’s where your tactics are.
Officer Buckholtz: Well, what if you’re left handed?
Driver: Oh, yeah. By the time [motion with empty left hand out window, making a "pistol" with fingers to show difficulty for left-hander to take officer under fire] here…
Officer Buckholtz: You know. [Unintelligle—both talking]…find out already?
Driver: So, if I….
Officer Buckholtz: What if you have it in between the seats?
Driver: If I send a Freedom of Information Act request for your General Orders on how to perform traffic stops…
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t even have to. You can go down to the library and get it.
Driver: OK. And there will be nothing in there about you expecting and being ready for an armed encounter.
Officer Buckholtz: We’re always ready for an armed encounter.
Driver: Exactly.
Officer Buckholtz: Which is what I’m saying. Had you gotten out of that car. Now, knowing that you’re armed…
Driver: um hmm
Officer Buckholtz: …you probably would have been shot. That’s what I’m saying.
Driver: Well, thank you for announcing in advance that you would, uh, infringe on my 5[suP]th[/suP] Amendment rights. [deprived of life without due process of law]
Officer Buckholtz: And how is that?
Driver: You’re shooting at a citizen who is getting out of the car…
Officer Buckholtz: No, no, no. An armed subject.
Driver: …with no weapons in his hands. Aah, that's real good.
Officer Buckholtz: You were told to stay in your car.
Driver:: Yes. And you noticed that I observed that instruction very carefully, didn’t you?
Officer Buckholtz: Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m very, I’m very glad you did.
Driver: So, so, why the criticism?
Officer Buckholtz: It wasn’t a criticism? It was a suggestion, sir.
Driver: Well, that it wasn’t.
Officer Buckholtz: Well, you can perceive it any way you like. It was meant as a criticism. Or not, as uh, as a uh, you know…[I speak, and being closer to the recorder drown part of Buckholtz’s response]…meant as a criticism for it.
Driver: Officer Buckholtz. I think you, I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere with this conversation.
Officer Buckholtz: I d…, I agree. We probably won’t.
Driver: Am I free to go?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir. You have been the whole time.
Driver: Well, that’s not for sure true. You told me to sit right here. And wait.
Officer Buckholtz: After, well what did, what did I tell you after your li..., after I gave your license back. [unintelligible]…go.
Driver: You did tell me to go. Yes. Very good.
Officer Buckholtz: You’ve been sitting here for ten minutes on your own.
Driver: Ha. Ha. Yeah, right.
Officer Buckholtz: OK? I thank you, sir.
Driver: Bye, bye. [end of encounter][/i]