List Your Open Carry Experiences Here

OC at Lenscrafters and Elections...

So I finally got up the courage to OC in a business. My glasses broke and so I had to order a pair from Lenscrafters yesterday. today I OC'd to pick them up at the Headquarters in sounthfield (on 8mile). Had my kids with me and no issues. I felt a bit better and now had some courage to finally go vote with it.

Some of us get nervous in confrontation.... Even when right.

So I voted (Oak Park) and left the school without incident. My oldest son voted for his first time and we were about to have another first (for me). we were talking about how smoothly it all went without problems. Just as I was opening the Van door I here:

COP: "Sir, can you come here..."

We chuckled and said to each other; "Here we go..." (Thinking to myself - 'Here is my first confrontation!" - the School made a MWAG call.

Well I am glad for heading the advice of this forum and carry MSP Update 86 with me always with my CPL.

The main officer was friendly but very authoritative acting even though he had no idea about lawful OC in a School. He thought it was totally contradictory to a CPL. He also never heard of the MSP 86. I produced it and he called his super and then also called the DA.

He kept asking for ID and "proof" of my CPL. I stated that as this was not a traffic stop I was required to produce ID but would kindly prove my CPL if it made him feel better...

He was fine with my compliance if it was under his order but not so fine at my doing it as a favor.

I was trying to be cooperative as my kids were with me but not backing down. I was nervous and made some errors in details, forgot the old directors name etc...

The Super came and read the update and agreed that I had not done anything wrong.

then the DA called and he explained to the DA that he no longer felt this was a case of CC in a PFZ (duh) and closed it.

They then ended it and just stood there saying that "That is all!" So I "thanked them" (I try to be courteous even when the offended is in the wrong). And left. they waited and watched me drive off probably hoping I would speed to illegally turn. Not gonna happen if I can help it.

the only thing I may have erred was at the end they asked for name and DOB for the report. I did not see that as a problem and did want to take my kids and be on my way. so I gave it after asking if it was for a LEIN or just the report? they said the later of course and that is truly usually how it goes here.

The Cops were not really bad in my case except the main patrolman who was really bothered if I did not believe his logic that OC-in-a-school was illogical-with-a-cpl. 'It is not about logic though - It is the law." I wish I had actually said the last part. but I thought it afterward.

In the end I never had to present my DL/ID or CPL and left as nervous as I was to start with but glad it was over.

Funny, the super stated how although OC was legal, that he did not think it appropriate at a school.

I politely pointed to my kids and let him know that with all that has been happening lately and my duty to protect them - that it was completely appropriate and logical.

I DID also have a mp3 recorder but the audio is very faint and is barely audible (would work in a pinch for a lawyer but I need a better recorder). I would post it if it was more audible or if someone could type up a transcript and I would label who's who.

Anyway, that is how my day went!

I didn't really feel up to it, but felt it was necessary for them to get used to Americans exercising the Right to vote and use our rights (while we have them).

Was my encourter perfect? NO! but I was calm and atleast was familiar enough and nervously-stubborn enough to not comply with his whims. The Super does know the laws and when he came and saw I was not arguing but simply standing for what was lawful.... He ended it withing a few minutes once we talked and he read the update right in front of me - Answered the DAs reply with, "No, that does not apply to this now..."

Now maybe I will be more comfortable OC'ing. It seems that the worry of initial encounters is a bit tough. I was able to remind the first COP about Combs and the B'ham case that ID when walking is not needed (He was really bothered by my reluctance to hand over ID at his command and would do so as a nice gesture instead...) In the end I never had to use it. He saw me flash my CPL in an attempt to be nice and was not interested in seeing it afterwards.

I am sure you guys would have handled it better or done some things differently - share what they are so I can be better prepared next time.

Thanks y'all and carry on!

OC'd while voting at Monroe Charter Township Hall. No issues or comments.

Scotchman, good job on the LEO encounter. Don't second-guess yourself harshly, I think you acquitted yourself well! I've been OCing for a year and think I am pretty comfortable with it, but I have yet to be stopped by a LEO so I can't say I would do anything any differently.

If asked I would have provided my CPL simply because it is required to OC in a school, so I think you did good!

Scotchman said:

So I finally got up the courage to OC in a business. My glasses broke and so I had to order a pair from Lenscrafters yesterday. today I OC'd to pick them up at the Headquarters in sounthfield (on 8mile). Had my kids with me and no issues. I felt a bit better and now had some courage to finally go vote with it.

Some of us get nervous in confrontation.... Even when right.

So I voted (Oak Park) and left the school without incident. My oldest son voted for his first time and we were about to have another first (for me). we were talking about how smoothly it all went without problems. Just as I was opening the Van door I here:

COP: "Sir, can you come here..."

We chuckled and said to each other; "Here we go..." (Thinking to myself - 'Here is my first confrontation!" - the School made a MWAG call.

Well I am glad for heading the advice of this forum and carry MSP Update 86 with me always with my CPL.

The main officer was friendly but very authoritative acting even though he had no idea about lawful OC in a School. He thought it was totally contradictory to a CPL. He also never heard of the MSP 86. I produced it and he called his super and then also called the DA.

He kept asking for ID and "proof" of my CPL. I stated that as this was not a traffic stop I was required to produce ID but would kindly prove my CPL if it made him feel better...

He was fine with my compliance if it was under his order but not so fine at my doing it as a favor.

I was trying to be cooperative as my kids were with me but not backing down. I was nervous and made some errors in details, forgot the old directors name etc...

The Super came and read the update and agreed that I had not done anything wrong.

then the DA called and he explained to the DA that he no longer felt this was a case of CC in a PFZ (duh) and closed it.

They then ended it and just stood there saying that "That is all!" So I "thanked them" (I try to be courteous even when the offended is in the wrong). And left. they waited and watched me drive off probably hoping I would speed to illegally turn. Not gonna happen if I can help it.

the only thing I may have erred was at the end they asked for name and DOB for the report. I did not see that as a problem and did want to take my kids and be on my way. so I gave it after asking if it was for a LEIN or just the report? they said the later of course and that is truly usually how it goes here.

The Cops were not really bad in my case except the main patrolman who was really bothered if I did not believe his logic that OC-in-a-school was illogical-with-a-cpl. 'It is not about logic though - It is the law." I wish I had actually said the last part. but I thought it afterward.

In the end I never had to present my DL/ID or CPL and left as nervous as I was to start with but glad it was over.

Funny, the super stated how although OC was legal, that he did not think it appropriate at a school.

I politely pointed to my kids and let him know that with all that has been happening lately and my duty to protect them - that it was completely appropriate and logical.

I DID also have a mp3 recorder but the audio is very faint and is barely audible (would work in a pinch for a lawyer but I need a better recorder). I would post it if it was more audible or if someone could type up a transcript and I would label who's who.

Anyway, that is how my day went!

I didn't really feel up to it, but felt it was necessary for them to get used to Americans exercising the Right to vote and use our rights (while we have them).

Was my encourter perfect? NO! but I was calm and atleast was familiar enough and nervously-stubborn enough to not comply with his whims. The Super does know the laws and when he came and saw I was not arguing but simply standing for what was lawful.... He ended it withing a few minutes once we talked and he read the update right in front of me - Answered the DAs reply with, "No, that does not apply to this now..."

Now maybe I will be more comfortable OC'ing. It seems that the worry of initial encounters is a bit tough. I was able to remind the first COP about Combs and the B'ham case that ID when walking is not needed (He was really bothered by my reluctance to hand over ID at his command and would do so as a nice gesture instead...) In the end I never had to use it. He saw me flash my CPL in an attempt to be nice and was not interested in seeing it afterwards.

I am sure you guys would have handled it better or done some things differently - share what they are so I can be better prepared next time.

Thanks y'all and carry on!

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The only problem I see for you is they now know who you are and you are in their "internal" data base. If you ever get stopped for driving, your name will come up as one of those and you are likely to get further scrutiny and no breaks on tickets. That is the primary reason NOT TO ID yourself. They now HAVE you.

You really had no reason to give your name and DOB. NO GOOD WILL COME OF IT.

Well the wife and I went and voted at the Morrin Point Fire House (Erie township) and no issues although I did find it amusing that there was nothing posted/said about my sidearm, but you could not take your cell phone into the polling area . Then went to the Meijer on Alexis in Toledo as it was close by and we needed a few things. Again no comments, just stink eye from some older gentleman as we were leaving and he was entering. Funny thing about him was he was wearing a Veterans ball cap. Go figure.

Venator said:

The only problem I see for you is they now know who you are and you are in their "internal" data base. If you ever get stopped for driving, your name will come up as one of those and you are likely to get further scrutiny and no breaks on tickets. That is the primary reason NOT TO ID yourself. They now HAVE you.

You really had no reason to give your name and DOB. NO GOOD WILL COME OF IT.

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Thanks. But, too late now! I will remember. That's how bad we are brainwashed, I had not even thought of that. So much still needs to be unlearned. That's why I am planning to attend the conference this saturday with theQ...

First encounters are always prone to problems... but I appreciate the comments. And hope that it will help others do better.

It was like dealing with Columbo and his "Oh, one more thing...." until you break down and mess up.

Need more un-training!

Scotchman said:

First encounters are always prone to problems...

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Yep. No doubt there. They have vast experience at ******* with people, whereas a first time victim is new to the whole process. No real good way to prepare, other than to have it in your head that you won't talk to them.

And while I utterly agree with Brian that producing ID won't help you, it should be remembered that any extensive OCing, in particular in circumstances where police interaction is likely, will probably result in your name being run either lawfully or unlawfully, but either way you'll be in LEIN.

OCing should be done despite this, in order to better our state. The sort of person who is serious about anonymity, at least for the time being should only OC at events where no trouble is expected from the cops, if at all.

It can get amusing, such as when pulled over, and they first give you a bunch of crap for being armed, then go run your name, and then act scared to talk to you for fear you'll make complaints and file FOIAs, going and getting out of there as fast as possible. A piggie having a 180 degree attitude adjustment from running me through LEIN during a traffic stop has happened twice this summer. Being as they were both pulling me over for driving with black, and merely looking to screw with us, having zero RAS for the stop to begin with, they weren't able to ticket me anyway. (yes I filed complaints) Driving carefully is a price worth paying as an activist.

Michigander said:

The sort of person who is serious about anonymity, at least for the time being should only OC at events where no trouble is expected from the cops, if at all.

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Lost my Anonymity back in the early 90's. No going back then or now!

I SHOULD have told him to get the name and dob of the caller instead!

Oh well...

Venator said:

The only problem I see for you is they now know who you are and you are in their "internal" data base. If you ever get stopped for driving, your name will come up as one of those and you are likely to get further scrutiny and no breaks on tickets. That is the primary reason NOT TO ID yourself. They now HAVE you.

You really had no reason to give your name and DOB. NO GOOD WILL COME OF IT.

Click to expand...

At a school isn't he required to show his CPL? That would have put him on their "internal" data base wouldn't it?

Raggs said:

At a school isn't he required to show his CPL?

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I don't think he is required by law to show it, but I think the police could have arrested him for carrying in a GFZ, and then he would have to either provide a CPL to prove an exemption, or provide one later in court.

Raggs said:

At a school isn't he required to show his CPL? That would have put him on their "internal" data base wouldn't it?

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No. CPL disclosure applies to pistol carry in vehicles, or concealed carry anywhere other than your private property. It does not apply to open carry anywhere other than vehicles, including where you are required to OC with a CPL in order to be armed.

griffin said:

I don't think he is required by law to show it, but I think the police could have arrested him for carrying in a GFZ, and then he would have to either provide a CPL to prove an exemption, or provide one later in court.

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That's what they were implying. They would have had my ID then anyway. They were bordering on holding me for belligerency - obstruction or something. Like they wanted to do with Sean.

As was said before - there was no chance at being anonymous and I knew that from the start.

So I tried to make the OC event a positive one without being argumentative. I honestly believe that I accomplished that. Once the Super arrived and read through the copy of the MSP Update 86 which is always in my wallet.... dialogue with me a bit to see if I really knew what I was trying to do -- that was it. The DA called, and the super closed the "event" and then he said I could go after they got my name and dob. I really did not see any way of getting out of there without at least a verbal id. And I considered that better than being hauled off for my DL & CPL.

So did I compromise? Probably but I think in the end I got what I needed.

Anonymous got left behind in '90...

The point is that voluntarily giving them your ID is consent. If they have no RAS for a stop, and no PC/warrant for an arrest, they are not lawfully able to stop you.

If they stop or arrest you without justification, then screw themselves by forcibly taking your ID and running it, they are recording on their own system that they violated your rights tremendously by state and federal law. Backing this up with your own audio and video, and from there getting all of their notes and other notation and recordings, will help enable you to ream them in court.

Remember, all of that goes out the window once you consent!

Michigander said:

The point is that voluntarily giving them your ID is consent. If they have no RAS for a stop, and no PC/warrant for an arrest, they are not lawfully able to stop you.

If they stop or arrest you without justification, then screw themselves by forcibly taking your ID and running it, they are recording on their own system that they violated your rights tremendously by state and federal law. Backing this up with your own audio and video, and from there getting all of their notes and other notation and recordings, will help enable you to ream them in court.

Remember, all of that goes out the window once you consent!

Click to expand...

OK, so giving them my name and dob was not needed and not wise?!

Is there a difference between that and giving your carded-ID (which I did not). Would that also be considered consent?

I can admit mistakes and hopefully wont do them often ;-)

today around the apartment complex.

yesterday at the sheriff dept.

no issues.

already posted in the election thread, but just in case:
i walked into the troy community center, signed in, got my ballot, then i was told the instructions for voting.
i stepped over to the booth, set my ballot down and picked up my pen. i started to read my ballot and was interrupted by a very quiet whisper from behind.
female poll worker:
"sir, are you a police officer?"
me:
"no"
female poll worker:
"then i don't think you can have a gun in here"
me:
"it's fine, i know i can"
her:
"i'm going to check"
me:
"ok, i'm going to finish voting"

she didn't come back and i finished voting

on my way out the door she said, "i checked and it was fine". i told her that i knew it would be. she said she just had to cover her bases. i told her that it was a lot easier for me to know what was legal than for her to know what was illegal. there is a whole lot more illegal in our country than there is legal.
despite being illegally harassed while in the voting booth, the lady was nice, so i didn't make an issue of it. that's what open carry is about, education.

In Detroit, I walked two blocks to my polling location which happened to be a church - dual OCing as usual. As I entered the building I heard someone in the crowd which was standing outside blurt out "G0d Damm!?" No one said a thing or batted an eye while I was inside - which is how it is supposed to be. On the way home a couple sitting on their front porch asked if I was a LEO. I replied "No, I'm just a law-abing citizen." The woman threw herself backwards in her chair giggling and replied "Well alright den." No problems, no issues.

Michigander said:

The point is that voluntarily giving them your ID is consent. If they have no RAS for a stop, and no PC/warrant for an arrest, they are not lawfully able to stop you.

If they stop or arrest you without justification, then screw themselves by forcibly taking your ID and running it, they are recording on their own system that they violated your rights tremendously by state and federal law. Backing this up with your own audio and video, and from there getting all of their notes and other notation and recordings, will help enable you to ream them in court.

Remember, all of that goes out the window once you consent!

Click to expand...

Possession of a pistol in a school is illegal, the CPL provides an exception. If he wouldn't have shown it, he would have been arrested. How was the stop illegal? On the face of it, he appeared to be a person breaking the law. Cite ONE case where a person with similar facts has successfully argued in a Michigan Court of Law that there was no RAS/ and subsequent PC. I think what he did was necessary. Not IDing would have had him listed in LEIN as having been arrested, and he would have no recourse.

drtodd does that apply to vehicles? if an officer sees me enter my vehicle with a pistol, is that RAS for a stop?
you're talking about something that is only illegal in certain cases. is operating a semi RAS to be stopped to make sure that the person possesses a valid CDL?

smellslikemichigan said:

dr todd. does that apply to vehicles? if an officer sees me enter my vehicle with a pistol, is that RAS for a stop?

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Yes