A statement from the leadership of Michigan Open Carry on the Passage of SB 59

[TheQ]

If that's the case, please explain how this bill promotes Open Carry in Michigan. Otherwise, why would an organization founded on the promotion of the Open Carry of firearms actually support this?

Maybe you can answer my question from the other thread?

A question to DrTodd. Would you have felt better if MOC was neutral or would you have demanded we "oppose" the bill?

 

[griffin]

why would an organization founded on the promotion of the Open Carry of firearms actually support this?

Because overall there is more good in the bill than bad? Because it eliminates PFZs for potentially 340,000 Michigan CPL holders? Because it codifies lawful firearms carry in former PFZs so gun-owners don't have to worry about judges like Aquilina deciding what a law states because it appears to have an unintentional loophole? Because politically it was the right thing to do? Because opposing it would be viewed as not supporting others in the MI gun community and that in this case there is no upside to that?

What good would showing fierce opposition to it be? Can you see any downside to that stance?

The OC prohibition was thrown in there literally at the last minute by Rick Snyder. You know MOC didn't want that. Wish you had attended the TeamSpeak meeting tonight. I think all of your questions--and more--would have been answered.

 

[TheQ]

The OC prohibition was thrown in there literally at the last minute by Rick Snyder. You know MOC didn't want that. Wish you had attended the TeamSpeak meeting tonight. I think all of your questions--and more--would have been answered.

I wish he'd made it too. Alas, he's too busy packing for Chicago. He only has time to sit on OpenCarry.org and gripe.

 

[TheQ]

Because overall there is more good in the bill than bad? Because it eliminates PFZs for potentially 340,000 Michigan CPL holders? Because it codifies lawful firearms carry in former PFZs so gun-owners don't have to worry about judges like Aquilina deciding what a law states because it appears to have an unintentional loophole? Because politically it was the right thing to do? Because opposing it would be viewed as not supporting others in the MI gun community and that in this case there is no upside to that?

What good would showing fierce opposition to it be? Can you see any downside to that stance?

The OC prohibition was thrown in there literally at the last minute by Rick Snyder. You know MOC didn't want that. Wish you had attended the TeamSpeak meeting tonight. I think all of your questions--and more--would have been answered.

BTW. You forgot to mention the 45 day shall issue or your money back and a free temp license...

 

[Big Gay Al]

..last time I checked a "No Firearms" sign means anyone carrying a firearm is breaking the law 0.o

No, the sign just means if they catch you with a firearm, they can tell you to get off their property. If you don't leave when asked, THEN you are breaking the law.

 

[Big Gay Al]

Ok, this is just my opinion, but I think this bill, while not perfect, could be a lot worse. And as long as it doesn't mention certain concepts related to concealed carry (Which I'm not going to mention, since the anti-gun people read this list and might get some ideas.), then I think this is a step forward in the right direction.

 

[griffin]

And as long as it doesn't mention certain concepts related to concealed carry

I'm not sure where exactly on your body you are thinking of concealing. Don't ask, don't tell!

 

[Raggs]

While we're fear mongering, why stop at $300? Why not say $3,000? Maybe that won't scare people enough. Let's say $30,000 -- that should be enough to scare most people, don't you suppose?

Fear mongering... Ok so how much will the class cost? I think the amounts I mention are within the realm of likely.

 

[Big Gay Al]

I'm not sure where exactly on your body you are thinking of concealing. Don't ask, don't tell!

Hint: It has to do with what some see as concealed, and some see as not quite concealed.

 

[Big Gay Al]

Fear mongering... Ok so how much will the class cost? I think the amounts I mention are within the realm of likely.

Well, the original class I took was $100.00. Granted, that was 9 years ago, but, I've been asking around about what most people charge for the standard CPL course, and it tends to vary between $125.00 to $180.00, depending on who's giving the class, where it is, and other unknown factors. Honestly, I think any amount over $200.00 is way off base. And I would hope that the better instructors would be somewhat reasonable in their pricing.

 

[Big Gay Al]

Big Gay Al has stated that Boiled Frogs is Stainless, but basically asked everyone to start over. Blessed are the merciful, Phil.

I'm pretty sure I never said Boiled Frogs is Stainless. Someone else might have, but I know it wasn't me.

 

[Big Gay Al]

.....If some of you can remember the shall issue law when it first was implemented, it was much more restrictive then it even is today. The first law said you got a 2 year permit the first time for 105 and then the next time and subsequent times a 5 year permit. That got changed to what we have today through a number of amendments. My point is this bill is not the end of the road just one more step in the journey toward the end goal we all want of Constitutional Carry......

I don't mean to nit pick, but the first shall issue CPL was good for 3 years. Then it changed to 5. I know, I still have my first Shall Issue CPL. Damn thing took 113 days to get it, from the day I applied. I sure wasn't gonna just throw it away when it expired.

 

[Armiger]

Well, the original class I took was $100.00. Granted, that was 9 years ago, but, I've been asking around about what most people charge for the standard CPL course, and it tends to vary between $125.00 to $180.00, depending on who's giving the class, where it is, and other unknown factors. Honestly, I think any amount over $200.00 is way off base. And I would hope that the better instructors would be somewhat reasonable in their pricing.

I took Personal Protection Outside the Home at Fenton Lakes Sportsman's Club with Daniel DiRienzo, Jr. last April. It was $200 for a two-day class. (Plus the cost of the 250 rounds of factory ammo you are required to take.) They have an indoor range. I enjoyed the class, particularly all of the range time!

 

[Raggs]

I took Personal Protection Outside the Home at Fenton Lakes Sportsman's Club with Daniel DiRienzo, Jr. last April. It was $200 for a two-day class. (Plus the cost of the 250 rounds of factory ammo you are required to take.) They have an indoor range. I enjoyed the class, particularly all of the range time!

so it would cost me roughly 260 dollars for the class figuring 12 dollars per box of ammo. Seems expensive for a right.

 

[scot623]

I took CQT Handgun 1 which meets the requirements or an advanced CPL. $150

Handgun 1- Meets Pistol Free Zone Exemption Requirements Hide Details Course Fee: $150.00
9-Hour Course
Practical classroom drills, lectures
Introduction to dynamic shooting
Proper holster draw and handgun manipulation
Magazine/speed loader reloads
Double tap and Rapid fire shooting drills
Multiple target engagement concepts
Type 1&2 malfunction drills
Situational awareness
Course Requirements
Personal Firearm
Holster
3 mags
2 Mag pouchs / speed loader pouch
Proper Attire
Minimum of 2 Snap Caps or "Dummy Rounds"
Eye/ear protection
250 rounds of ammunition min.

http://www.cqtusa.com/main/Training.aspx

 

[Shadow Bear]

Is that information going to be passed on to the arresting officers? And if so, are they going to care?

It appears one right, sorry, privilege, has been given up for another, and both still require permission from the .gov. It also appears that another legal loophole, that WILL be exploited by judges and DA's, has been opened.

Just as they've used the brandishing statute to prosecute OCers...

 

[Venator]

so it would cost me roughly 260 dollars for the class figuring 12 dollars per box of ammo. Seems expensive for a right.

I think the market will dictate the cost. When we first had classes for a CPL the cost was high as it was new and there were not a lot of instructors. That has changed and you can get a CPL class for as cheap as $50.

We have many more instructors and as more people take the class the price will come down.

My guess is the class will be about $125 or so and you can get a 100 round box of ammo for around $35 or less. Look at it this way you can choose not to take the class. If you do, look at it as a chance for more training and good quality range time as well as spending the day with like minded people for a fun day shooting. It's all good man.

 

[Shadow Bear]

To those of you who came out tonight, thank you for coming and I hope everyone who came now has a better understanding of why things were done than they understood before....even if they don't agree with it.

Those damn few who attended the Teamspeak meeting....where was everybody else who's bitching here?:banghead:

 

[Raggs]

Those damn few who attended the Teamspeak meeting....where was everybody else who's bitching here?:banghead:

I asked to late to be involved. bad timing on my part.

 

[Big Gay Al]

so it would cost me roughly 260 dollars for the class figuring 12 dollars per box of ammo. Seems expensive for a right.

Except you forget, Concealed Carry isn't a right, it's a privilege. Unfortunately.