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AK vs. AR

bigdaddy1

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,320
Location
Southsider der hey
I am an AK fan from way back. It has six moving parts, can be made in garage, and if you bury it in the mud, dig it up a year later and feed it the dirtiest ammo Russia ever made, it will still fire. :)

I have heard from military friends that the first thing you do when you hit Afghanistan or Iraq is get yourself an AK so that WHEN your AR jams, you have a gun. :)

And let the discussion begin. LOL!
:monkey

Have to agree, the last time this discussion was made I stated I dont want a riffle I have to continuously fiddle with. Point and shoot. The AR does not fit that criteria.
 
M

McX

Guest
yep, kwik your absolutely right, we all know criminals never break the laws. just them damned roving gangs of law abiding citizens!
 

flb_78

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
544
Location
Gravel Switch, KY
AR hit is a death sentence..

Right...

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ues-new-m855a1-ammo-to-troops-in-afghanistan/

Specific complaints include: 1) inability to effectively penetrate vehicle windshields; 2) poor long-range performance; and 3) failure to fragment even in short-range anti-personnel use.

They just now updated to the new M855A1 cartridge.

There is no good answer to the AR vs. AK debate because each has their own advantages over the other.
 

zoom6zoom

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Messages
1,694
Location
Dale City, VA, Virginia, USA
"The ak-47 is the weapon of choice for america's enemies". That is what the news report said about my ak...

Must be true, because the media is one of America's enemies, and to them every rifle is an "AK-47".

I for one am really tired of hearing that the AK is not accurate. Must be something wrong with mine.
 
M

McX

Guest
that would be an interesting question to pose, about being on watch lists. anyone have any trouble boarding an aircraft as of late?
 

simmonsjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
1,662
Location
Mattaponi, Virginia, United States

Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,613
Location
I80, USA
C'mon, seriously. Every person on this forum is already on a watch list. We carry guns around in public for cripes sake! :eek::cool::p
Not me. :(


@the video: "They can pray and spray, shoot off 600 rounds per minute" "so simple even a child could use it" and more I can't be bothered to remember...
 

NRAMARINE

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
523
Location
Anywhere but here.
As I'm sure all of you know, the 5.56 round is designed to tumble on impact, fragment, and essentially piball around the inside of the human body. Where as a 7.62 round will simply go through and through. Now if this happens with ANY sort of well placed shot it is in fact deadly. However my point is that the unique properties of the 5.56 round make it much more forgiving. For example if you are say hit in a non vital area such as the shoulder, the round is designed to fragment and quite possibly take out internal organs rather than exit straight out the rear of the body. There is also the weight factor of the ammo. You can carry almost twice the rounds for the same weight. I cannot speak for everyone but I must say that is a godsend when stuck in hostile country in West Africa. The ak is an excellent close quarters weapon, no one denies that. However practical combat applications do at the most inoportune times require engaging targets out beyond 300 yards. Outside of 200 the ak is virtually useless. Both have pro's and cons. I'll take the time to be more attentive to the care of a weapon in exchange for superior accuracy and more rounds per pound. Everyone has a preference, this just happens to be mine.


BTW, Glocks are still better than the Xd's LOL!
 

simmonsjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
1,662
Location
Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
For a Marine I'd expect you to be more knowledgable.

As I'm sure all of you know, the 5.56 round is designed to tumble on impact, fragment, and essentially piball around the inside of the human body. Where as a 7.62 round will simply go through and through. Now if this happens with ANY sort of well placed shot it is in fact deadly. However my point is that the unique properties of the 5.56 round make it much more forgiving. For example if you are say hit in a non vital area such as the shoulder, the round is designed to fragment and quite possibly take out internal organs rather than exit straight out the rear of the body. There is also the weight factor of the ammo. You can carry almost twice the rounds for the same weight. I cannot speak for everyone but I must say that is a godsend when stuck in hostile country in West Africa. The ak is an excellent close quarters weapon, no one denies that. However practical combat applications do at the most inoportune times require engaging targets out beyond 300 yards. Outside of 200 the ak is virtually useless. Both have pro's and cons. I'll take the time to be more attentive to the care of a weapon in exchange for superior accuracy and more rounds per pound. Everyone has a preference, this just happens to be mine.


BTW, Glocks are still better than the Xd's LOL!
You are correct the 5.56 is meant to tumble. You are correct there is a definite weight advantage with the 5.56.

You are incorrect about the accuracy past 200 yards. 7.62x39 requires more elevation and windage adjustment, but is still stable past 300yards. 5.56 will maintain stabilization past the 7.62x39 range, but has little energy out that far.

You are incorrect about the 5.56 fragmenting. It was designed NOT to fragment, otherwise it wouldn't tumble properly. When the 5.56 hits hard stuff it tends to flatten out, bleeding weight(read energy) by having lead squeezed out of it.(This is not fragmentation) When it only contact soft tissue, it usually passes through the target mostly or completely before tumbling.

The benefits of the tumbling bullet can be realized in the AK-74. The 5.45x39 ammunition has virtually identical flying characteristics as 5.56. On top of that, the Russians fixed the tumbling problems by placing a void at the nose of the bullet. This shifts weight to the rear of the 5.45 bullet, and causes it to tumble much sooner upon impact than the 5.56.

So. Lets recap. 6 moving parts. No direct gas impingement, most battle proven, reliable, and durable design, identical flight characteristics, better terminal ballistics.

Seems like AK-74 is the win. All the advantages of the AK platform, better ballistics than AR.
AR still has best ergonomics.

Also Arsenal AK occasionally does a run of 5.56x39's.

This is for a battle/assault/SHTF rifle. For civilian purposes I'd say the modularity of the AR would push it into the lead.
 
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sonoran_Tj

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
22
Location
Tucson, AZ
FN FAL. Superior to the AK in almost all regards. Throws a bigger bullet faster, and usually more accurately. Just as reliable, and operates dirty. Only problem with it is it costs more to manufacture.

To the points about tumbling bullets, I believe the men behind the box o' truth discovered almost all bullets, including .30 caliber bullets, tumble after entering heavy material like water jugs or dry wall. cited from: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

p.s. in that AK video, they show FALs at 0:46-0:48
 

kwikrnu

Banned
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,956
Location
Brentwood, Tennessee
FN FAL. Superior to the AK in almost all regards. Throws a bigger bullet faster, and usually more accurately. Just as reliable, and operates dirty. Only problem with it is it costs more to manufacture.

To the points about tumbling bullets, I believe the men behind the box o' truth discovered almost all bullets, including .30 caliber bullets, tumble after entering heavy material like water jugs or dry wall. cited from: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

p.s. in that AK video, they show FALs at 0:46-0:48

I can outfit my family with aks for the price of a nice fn fal. Surplus ammo is 1/2 price for the 7.62x39 vs the .308.
 
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